I still wonder what happened.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

It's pretty much a matter of public record that Tanaka was screwed over by Crystal Tools and the forced release date. I'm of the opinion that many of the core design choices in FFXIV are fundamentally flawed etc etc, but even though it's easy to say "it would have failed regardless of how much time they had," I don't think Tanaka was as incompetent as FFXIV makes him seem.

For instance, I don't like the Armory system, durability/repair, or guildleves: they're all poor implementations of questionable ideas. If Tanaka had been given the time he needed, they might have become excellent implementations of questionable ideas and maybe validate the concept behind them. Or if they didn't work in practice, I am sure Tanaka would change them into something that did work, if he had the time he needed.

[Jennestia]

Yep -- Tanaka isn't incompetent, but a lot of the base ideas were flawed mostly because of trying to make it as different as possible from XI. The CT engine I think isn't fully the culprit as much as poor optimization for MMO use. Given time based around: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f018ec5fb504d2 it seems that XIV would have needed quite a lot more than another year or two to be acceptable compared to if they had initially built off of all XI accomplished and made it bigger and better while at the same time making it casual friendly.

A lot of XI was made through the concept of "having enough time" though the fact they went through FFXI and FMO as their major MMORPGs, XIV really felt like they were trying something different for the sake of it.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

Yep -- Tanaka isn't incompetent, but a lot of the base ideas were flawed mostly because of trying to make it as different as possible from XI. The CT engine I think isn't fully the culprit as much as poor optimization for MMO use. Given time based around: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...f018ec5fb504d2 it seems that XIV would have needed quite a lot more than another year or two to be acceptable compared to if they had initially built off of all XI accomplished and made it bigger and better while at the same time making it casual friendly.

A lot of XI was made through the concept of "having enough time" though the fact they went through FFXI and FMO as their major MMORPGs, XIV really felt like they were trying something different for the sake of it.

Yeah, "different for the sake of different" is a horrible design philosophy. I'm sure that was mandated by whoever thought a September 2010 launch was a good idea.

[Demacia]

It feels as if they put absolutely zero effort into creating XIV compared to creating XI. Especially when you compare Vana'diel with Eorzea in their environment and lore. I really wish they would just throw it all out the window and start over from scratch, but that's unrealistic.

[Physic]

ill just say i disagree with the OP and most of their beliefs. FFXI-2 would have failed, and i think you ll find in the next few years, that most of the big MMO games will bear a more close resemblence with the basics of FFXIV original, but implemented way better. The game was made for the future, they messed it up, but the ideas were there. But im sure most of the posters here will disagree, and truth is we will never know what could have been, and only time will tell what will be, so whatever

[Jennestia]

ill just say i disagree with the OP and most of their beliefs. FFXI-2 would have failed, and i think you ll find in the next few years, that most of the big MMO games will bear a more close resemblence with the basics of FFXIV original, but implemented way better. The game was made for the future, they messed it up, but the ideas were there. But im sure most of the posters here will disagree, and truth is we will never know what could have been, and only time will tell what will be, so whatever

I don't see anywhere in her OP that says turn XIV into XI-2 like people seem to believe whenever XI is brought up. WoW is basically UO/AO-2 as it took everything they did and built off of it and made things more streamlined and casual friendly.

See? It's not an alien concept -- There's nothing wrong with taking what worked in XI and making it better. Though it does bring up the curious point that people are quick to say a 'WoW' clone will do well (Rift, SWTOR) yet copying even the basics from the company's previous successful MMO is a death sentence.

[Icopico]

FFXIV didn't do so poorly merely because it stepped away from FFXI's "Grind 'Til You Drop" playstyle. FFXIV did poorly because it was the most unfinished MMO that's come out in the last five or six years. Vanguard released in a more complete state, and at least the first twenty levels of AoC were fun.

If anything, Tanaka stepped away from development that was grounded in logic or even sanity. Getting shoved out the door a year early only made the failure of his design choices that much more acute.

/thumbsup

[Gasher]

I have to disagree with the consensus here.

Everything about this game screams that it was pushed to released far before it was even remotely finished. It had nothing to do with Tanaka, or even resources (other than time). It's simply what happens when you have upper management who think that your brand name alone can carry your product, regardless of the state it's in.

If indeed it was upper management that pushed this title for early release (which sounds VERY plausible to me) then I could not agree with you more. As of lately I feel that we the players have been seeing a trend pointing in this direction. Where titles gets released and re-released all in the name of attempting to make more money. Hopefully SE knows what the hell they are up to in this new 'quantity-not-quality-strategy'.

[Neptune]

Look at the 10th Vanadiel Census:
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui.../10/index.html

It shows they keep pretty damn in depth records of even minimal stuff. I understand they wanted to step away from XI, but some of this data kept kinda shows (including the previous data before XIV release) what a lot of players like, what a lot of players do and what a lot of players expect at least in term of their MMOs.

While they didn't have to make a direct clone, it's pretty clear they shouldn't have stepped away from it so much and XIV would have likely done so,so much better than it did.

You're right that it would have done better. If it had been a direct clone it would be a successful, niche game instead of a complete failure of a game. I don't think they want to be a niche game though. While their eyes weren't set on market dominance in the end they were disappointed that FFXI only saw small numbers of players compared to the larger Final Fantasy series. They're going to do what they can to appeal to as many of those people as possible.

This may further bewilder you, but the XI team IS the XIV team. How could they forget any of that when they were working on XIV side by side with XI the last few years? The answer is: they didn't forget anything. The stuff that is missing from this game is missing only because it was released before they were finished adding the stuff they were going to add from XI.

What do you think this game still needs added to it from XI?

[TonyMontana]

Can you imagine how bad blizzards new MMO will lay waste to everything that exists in the MMO world. An MMO being made by the best of the best, no money worries, no time constraints. I hope it proves to all the other developers out there what can be done when a quality team releases a quality product. Instead of hoping to make enough off of box sales to break even you make a quality product and reap the repeat monthy fee gravy train from millions of fan.