I still wonder what happened.

[Elexia]

Look at the 10th Vanadiel Census:
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui.../10/index.html

It shows they keep pretty damn in depth records of even minimal stuff. I understand they wanted to step away from XI, but some of this data kept kinda shows (including the previous data before XIV release) what a lot of players like, what a lot of players do and what a lot of players expect at least in term of their MMOs.

While they didn't have to make a direct clone, it's pretty clear they shouldn't have stepped away from it so much and XIV would have likely done so,so much better than it did.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

I think they stepped away from too many formulae: FFXI, western MMORPGs, FFXIII.

The only way I can make sense of any of this is, those responsible for SE's financial direction played a role in the premature release of FFXIV.

[Naqaj]

Depends entirely on what their intention was. If they wanted to make a game that attracts new players who didn't like XI, stepping away from what that particular fanbase liked was the right step. Releasing the game a year too early was not

[Ashthra]

FFXIV didn't do so poorly merely because it stepped away from FFXI's "Grind 'Til You Drop" playstyle. FFXIV did poorly because it was the most unfinished MMO that's come out in the last five or six years. Vanguard released in a more complete state, and at least the first twenty levels of AoC were fun.

If anything, Tanaka stepped away from development that was grounded in logic or even sanity. Getting shoved out the door a year early only made the failure of his design choices that much more acute.

[TonyMontana]

FFXIV didn't do so poorly merely because it stepped away from FFXI's "Grind 'Til You Drop" playstyle. FFXIV did poorly because it was the most unfinished MMO that's come out in the last five or six years. Vanguard released in a more complete state, and at least the first twenty levels of AoC were fun.

If anything, Tanaka stepped away from development that was grounded in logic or even sanity. Getting shoved out the door a year early only made the failure of his design choices that much more acute.

+100000000000000

[AdvancedWind]

Depends entirely on what their intention was. If they wanted to make a game that attracts new players who didn't like XI, stepping away from what that particular fanbase liked was the right step. Releasing the game a year too early was not

FFXIV didn't do so poorly merely because it stepped away from FFXI's "Grind 'Til You Drop" playstyle. FFXIV did poorly because it was the most unfinished MMO that's come out in the last five or six years. Vanguard released in a more complete state, and at least the first twenty levels of AoC were fun.

If anything, Tanaka stepped away from development that was grounded in logic or even sanity. Getting shoved out the door a year early only made the failure of his design choices that much more acute.

This and that, nothing else to add.

[Elexia]

Depends entirely on what their intention was. If they wanted to make a game that attracts new players who didn't like XI, stepping away from what that particular fanbase liked was the right step. Releasing the game a year too early was not

Even with the early release of the game, it was flawed conceptually and would have continued to be flawed a year later. People who know me knows I had high hopes for this game and felt that it would have succeeded XI in every way, yet it ended up throwing out every type of concept and basic system that made XI and any MMO work.

FFXIV didn't do so poorly merely because it stepped away from FFXI's "Grind 'Til You Drop" playstyle.

It stepped away from content concepts and basic systems. The 'grind' is present in every game in some fashion. It was largely accepted that Chains of Promathia was the best expansion even with the love/hate nature of the level cap, because it actually got people out there exploring and experiencing a great story and tough fights. Stuff like this should have been brought over in terms of concept. Stepping away from FFXI was in essence stepping away from FF in general, because even though Tanaka led both of the game's developments, he made XI to be an extension of what they couldn't do with older FF games while using EQ as inspiration.

So given 1 or 2 more years, XIV would have still been conceptually bad. Unfinished MMOs still have the basic systems because they're systems that are created first before going into the meat of your game. If you remember, the only plans they had for the next year at best was Hamlet defense, which means another year of time, outside of bug fixing and optimization the content beyond guildleves would have been 1 other system, still not enough to say XIV would have done well more "finished" when they already stepped away from 20+ content concepts they could have easily made better for this game.

[Ashthra]

You basically just said what I said with more words. XD

[Naqaj]

Even with the early release of the game, it was flawed conceptually and would have continued to be flawed a year later. People who know me knows I had high hopes for this game and felt that it would have succeeded XI in every way, yet it ended up throwing out every type of concept and basic system that made XI and any MMO work.

I absolutely agree with that. I was trying to say that the conceptual flaw was not abandoning XI's designs, but failing to come up with a working alternative.

[Dreamer]

I have to disagree with the consensus here.

Everything about this game screams that it was pushed to released far before it was even remotely finished. It had nothing to do with Tanaka, or even resources (other than time). It's simply what happens when you have upper management who think that your brand name alone can carry your product, regardless of the state it's in.