DPS ignoring hate/threat/aggro

[Kitru]

The point of the system is so that the game knows which target an enemy should be attacking.

Which could be done more easily by not having an enmity system at all. Just make it a straight up priority system instead of tracking a value based off of damage. The entire point of the enmity subgame is that you actually have to generate enmity else you'll lose aggro. If you don't want to have enmity generation as a concern, remove the system rather than nerfing the living hell out of it because a few people can't do it.

The point of the enmity system is not to determine who NPCs are attacking. Because there are other systems that accomplish what the enmity system does in a simpler fashion, the *point* of the enmity system is to create a subgame to determine who NPCs are attacking. Since it's a subgame, it should actually be compelling to some sense, else there's no reason to include it. If you simplify it to such an extent that it's completely ignored, that's exactly what happens: it serves no purpose and simply becomes an artefactual system because it *used* to serve one.

In WoW, tanks' focus is on generating resources to allow them to use their primary defensive abilities.

Welcome to WAR. Just because PLD is boring as hell doesn't mean that all tanks have absolutely nothing going on but enmity generation.

Also, if you want to talk about "generally play more like DPS", enmity generation *is* the same basic thing as doing DPS. The difference between current WoW tanks and old-school WoW tanks isn't that they now play more like DPS; the difference is that their mitigation has been shifted from passive to active mechanisms, which has absolutely nothing to do with the enmity subgame. WAR already demonstrates that you can have a compelling enmity subgame while simultaneously having active mitigation.

You've got a GLA at 18 and a MRD at 26, and even have any 50s. You obviously haven't even tanked anything beyond the earliest starter dungeons where aggro generation can basically be summed up as "spam your AoE enmity generator and go afk" so I seriously have to wonder why you're even taking part in this discussion unless you simply want to debate the merits of enmity systems in the abstract, at which point the fact that you conflate enmity generation with active v. passive mitigation demonstrates that you really don't have the knowledge to partake in such a discussion.

[Elrin]

The point of the enmity system is not to determine who NPCs are attacking. Because there are other systems that accomplish what the enmity system does in a simpler fashion, the *point* of the enmity system is to create a subgame to determine who NPCs are attacking.

Yes, the point is to determine who enemies are attacking. The usage of that system is what you're referring to. The system can be used in the foreground, by tanks to actively manage and control it, or in the background, as an invisible system used only by the game itself. FFXIV chose to have it be used in the foreground while WoW chose to have it be used in the background.

The subgame you refer to is a usage of an existing system to make tanking more interesting in the absence of other interesting mechanics. It's something that WoW used for a long time too, then abandoned in favor of a different system.

WAR uses a mixture of the systems. Enmity is still important, but they have a shell of an active mitigation system in place as well, plus other things to keep track of. I think it works fine; as you noted, I'm only just starting with MAR, but it's already pretty fun, and my research leads me to believe it will only continue to be so.

I personally haven't really had issues with enmity in this game, as either a tank or a DPS. I had a pretty big stigma against it when I first started playing, but it's not nearly as bad as threat used to be in WoW. So I don't really think there's a need to remove it. I can, however, understand why people would have that point of view.

[Dimitrias]

Just the other day I was mt guruda hm. Well I got initial hate, but as soon as she jumped in the air, and came back down, she immediately whent start for our bard. I even used my provoke + Shield lob macro to try and get her back, but she went right back to the dps.

Our war took over mt immediately and I just attacked after that point

I've mt her before and she always came back to me and I'd keep her by that big rock, but sometimes well...

Even as dpsing guruda ex, several attemps the MT couldn't even get guruda set up before she starting going after the others... he finally told um to stop that.

PS. I was an Ilvl 82 pld MTing Guruda HM, and I still lost her agro that early on...