DPS ignoring hate/threat/aggro

[PenutButter]

I'm sorry but if you're losing threat to a dps, ESPECIALLY if its a target that you're both focusing on, the fault is entirely with you. It was not hard to keep threat before the buff but with the huge buff that SE gave to threat, this is inexcusable. This might only be excusable if you are SIGNIFICANTLY lower geared than him. Even against the high initial burst of Bards, you should not lose hate, unless the Bard starts attacking it before you even get there but even then, you have plenty of tools to get immediate aggro.

The question is: Should the DPS realize that you're a bad tank and back off? Maybe. I'm not trying to be an elitist and I won't kick or belittle you for being a bad tank but this is just fact. I know some of the newer PLD (WAR is inexcusable) have issues keeping AoE threat against BLMs but it is still more than doable. Also, a BLM taking hate for a few sec is okay, its not the end of the world.

[Rextab]

i've geared up quite a bit since i posted this. i was a fresh 50. now my ilvl is 76. i have my zenith weapon and working towards zodiac, have a few pieces of myth gear, etc. tanking has become exceptionally easier. as i said before, i think it was gear and people not really watching their threat generation over a freshly geared tank. occassionally i do have people that recognize this and even say they will hold off dps a bit until they know if my gear can handle their threat generation. it isn't much of a problem now.
single target (focused mobs) are never an issue. it is extra mobs. they go aoe crazy before you can lay down anything to get solid threat on all targets.

[Rextab]

i have adjusted my playstyle a bit to compensate. what i used to do was use something, usually shield lob to get initial threat, then flash x2, then start working on strikes to get threat built on each target. cycling in a flash here and there to maintain.
my new adjusted pull style which almost always works now is to still pull with shield lob, and then i immediately Flash the number of mobs +1. so if there are three in the pull, i flash 4 times. this seems to get me enough threat out of the gate to keep aggro during the initial AOE-fest, i follow with CoS, and then I start working on rotation. i will then usually Flash x2 after every rotation or so to make sure to keep threat. this really only needs to be done when the group goes AOE crazy.
another thing i did was picked up Fracture from the Marauder skills. While not always useful, i sometimes will throw it up on nonfocused mobs to give me just an extra little bit of threat generation on the mobs i am not currently focusing on.

[PapaGuu]

ilvl86 PLD here... I don't lose aggro to DPS often, but every now and then a really well-geared MNK or BLM comes along and if I don't pay close attention they could easily peel the mob(s) from me. Here's my rotation on 3+ mobs for your consideration:

1) Fight or Flight (when available) + Shield Lob (macro'd mark #1) + Circle of Scorn + Flash (macro'd Flash to follow CoS with a 1 second delay)
2) Flash again
3) Fast Blade + Savage Blade on Mob 1
4) Rage of Halone on Mob 2 (and also mark it #2)
5) Fast Blade on Mob 3 (should have little to no hate on others)
6) Back on Mob 1 again and constantly switching target to monitor the hate bars and adjust accordingly

Note: it is my experience that when you have 3+ mobs as long as you mark them the DPS will generally follow. With the except of Flare, other AOEs don't seem to generate so much hate that you can't get it back with CoS and a couple Flashes...


Just to add, I haven't seen anyone mentioned this throughout this thread, but once you main tank and get pretty good at it, and then switch to a DPS or a healing job, the # of bad tanks in the lower level dungeon including AK and WP is just astonishing if not outright unbearable. Keep up the good work!

[Rextab]

yeah. i can tank any of the 4 mans i am doing fine. i am maintanking CT with no issues. i have noticed bad tanks in lower content too. some of that might be inexperience and some might be becoming used to having certain abilities. the lower content is designed with the fact the tank doesnt have all their abilities, so tanking in low level as opposed to high level IS different, but the principle is still the same.
my flash rule still works fine. flash times the number of mobs +1...but i really miss CoS
one thing i forgot to add to my tanking rotation is i always use my mana regen on the final target so i can maintaint max, or close to max, mana to avoid waiting for the next pull.

[Muzy]

DPS pulling because they don't give you a moment to establish agro on an add is always going to be an issue, but that's less of a you issue and more of a them issue, otherwise, sounds like you're well on the path to rocking out with minimal problems.

[Maero]

Sorry that you have had bad experiences, not all dps are like so.
Myself i always use quelling strikes and watch the agro meter, even use quelling with my blm.
I would even say have seen numerous dps attack targets like example target 2 instead of 1, or even target 3.
Sure myself as Bard i often add dots to other targets but then i switch and focus on target #1
On the other hand and Ct has been an example of this, players were complaining that it was dps fault.
So i replied back well if i give tanks time to get agro, pop in Quelling Strikes and still i end up with agro well that is not the dps fault

The question is: Should the DPS realize that you're a bad tank and back off? Maybe. I'm not trying to be an elitist and I won't kick or belittle you for being a bad tank but this is just fact. I know some of the newer PLD (WAR is inexcusable) have issues keeping AoE threat against BLMs but it is still more than doable. Also, a BLM taking hate for a few sec is okay, its not the end of the world.

this holds true as well, more often then not even after using quelling strikes and on the verge of getting agro i wonder should i stop to dps for a bit

[Versiroth]

The best way I've found to stop DPS/Healers from pulling Aggro is to simply generate a crap ton myself. When pulling with my Warrior, I normally Use Berserk/Internal Release when they're up and then Infuriate-Steel Cyclone-Overpower x 2. I'll then do some combos to build wraith and throw in an Overpower in between. I'll also try to always have 5 Wraith stored up by the end of a pull so I can Steel Cyclone, Infuriate, Steel Cyclone to start off the next pull. I never lose aggro to anyone doing this.

On my Paladin, it's a little more difficult, but I'll typically, Fight or Flight, Flash, Circle, Flash until my MP is low, and then go into a FB-RB-Flash rotation with CoS any time it's up. After a while, I'll use flash less and try to just FB-RB to get my MP back up for the next pull. Even with this, I can sometimes still lose Aggro if someone is going crazy on one single target, but it's normally not that bad.

[magdahmhara]

Blame WoW. :P

[GuardianX]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I have come across new tanks at low levels that don't know how to keep hate. I noticed they only auto attack and have no idea how to do weapon skills. I tried to be nice and explain but he didn't get it. Is this even possible to not know how to use weapon skills or is he just playing dumb?