Feedback Regarding the Relic Upgrade Quest

[SublimeIbanez]

sorry, another post due to text limitations. Another issue is due to the RNG aspect, a lot of people WILL try to continually grind this because "maybe it'll be the next one" (hence the skinner-box effect). If people had a hard number to reach, it would be more casual and people would complain a bit less. Would still complain, but it would be less. This complaining would just be about how lazy of a quest design that is rather than an unfair mechanic.

[Calyanare]

took me over 100 hours to get mine, but i'm glad it's something to work towards and am enjoying the quest.

I seriously do not understand people who claim to enjoy spamming low level FATEs on a level 50 character.

sorry, another post due to text limitations. Another issue is due to the RNG aspect, a lot of people WILL try to continually grind this because "maybe it'll be the next one" (hence the skinner-box effect). If people had a hard number to reach, it would be more casual and people would complain a bit less. Would still complain, but it would be less. This complaining would just be about how lazy of a quest design that is rather than an unfair mechanic.

There's no limit when you edit an existing post, and yeah, it's annoying. I had to purposefully avoid doing any FATEs yesterday because I dreamt about it all night the previous night and woke up feeling like I hadn't slept at all. After capping soldiery for the week, this is all anybody in my FC seems to be doing, is either grinding Atmas or working on the books.

[Vahlnir]

As do I, which is why I'm only at 56 hours instead of what it possibly could be. I'm not here to complain about the grind, but rather the RNG element being a lazy implementation. The quest in itself is rather lazy, but it gives me something to do, all that needs to be changed is how the atmas drop, instead of rng there should be a set progression.

It may be my prior experiences with MMOs and RNG, but that part doesn't phase me at all. To me it's just another element in the MMO world. It's not the first time in this game or others before that I've had to do something repeatedly to get what I want and it won't be the last :P That said, I wouldn't mind there being some sort of set progression in the future in regards to how we upgrade our relics. The books after the Atma grind are a good start. They kind of gave us a little bit of both with our upgrading this patch, really.

[UBERHAXED]

There isn't really a problem with the mechanics, it's a response to unintended player behavior (i.e. buying relics) for the first relic quest. Yes you have brought it upon yourselves. Now they have made it so that no part of the quest it is possible to purchase services (such as making gear, materia, buying primal runs, etc) and so there is no gil buying incentive. In addition, because a person can no longer just "purchase" the relic when they have enough money, they've restored the meaning of the relic weapon, as a rare weapon that only a dedicated few will get, and only the really dedicated will have for multiple classes.

[Vahlnir]

There isn't really a problem with the mechanics, it's a response to unintended player behavior (i.e. buying relics) for the first relic quest. Yes you have brought it upon yourselves. Now they have made it so that no part of the quest it is possible to purchase services (such as making gear, materia, buying primal runs, etc) and so there is no gil buying incentive. In addition, because a person can no longer just "purchase" the relic when they have enough money, they've restored the meaning of the relic weapon, as a rare weapon that only a dedicated few will get, and only the really dedicated will have for multiple classes.

I couldn't agree more.

[SublimeIbanez]

It may be my prior experiences with MMOs and RNG, but that part doesn't phase me at all. To me it's just another element in the MMO world. It's not the first time in this game or others before that I've had to do something repeatedly to get what I want and it won't be the last :P That said, I wouldn't mind there being some sort of set progression in the future in regards to how we upgrade our relics. The books after the Atma grind are a good start. They kind of gave us a little bit of both with our upgrading this patch, really.

RNG in and on itself isn't a terrible mechanic to use. It's just how and where you decide to use it. What if every time you tried to cast a spell, you would hit a button and it would pick a random spell? Just because it might have been used in a different game doesn't mean it belongs in all of them. Gating "content" (actual in-game quest/dungeon progression) with RNG is a terrible idea and should have been avoided.

[Calyanare]

because a person can no longer just "purchase" the relic when they have enough money, they've restored the meaning of the relic weapon, as a rare weapon that only a dedicated few will get, and only the really dedicated will have for multiple classes.

There are much better ways to do this (prevent buying it, that is) than putting the upgrade behind a tedious unrewarding RNG wall. And honestly, it's not the dedicated who have it, it's the lucky.

FWIW, I didn't buy my Relic and I think selling carries for stuff like this should be a bannable offense, but of course the "dedicated" mostly disagree with me on that because they want to sell them...

[Vahlnir]

RNG in and on itself isn't a terrible mechanic to use. It's just how and where you decide to use it. What if every time you tried to cast a spell, you would hit a button and it would pick a random spell? Just because it might have been used in a different game doesn't mean it belongs in all of them. Gating "content" (actual in-game quest/dungeon progression) with RNG is a terrible idea and should have been avoided.

Don't misunderstand, I get what you're saying. It certainly wouldn't work well with spell use and I can't say that FATE grinding for a chance at 1 item 12 times is tons of fun. In reality I don't care for FATEs but I was happy that they added this grind. I hope they bring in more grinds but less FATE-related ones. What it comes down to really is that some people will enjoy certain things and others will despise them. SE can't please everyone.

[UBERHAXED]

There are much better ways to do this (prevent buying it, that is) than putting the upgrade behind a tedious unrewarding RNG wall. And honestly, it's not the dedicated who have it, it's the lucky.

FWIW, I didn't buy my Relic and I think selling carries for stuff like this should be a bannable offense, but of course the "dedicated" mostly disagree with me on that because they want to sell them...

You misunderstand. The quest isn't over when you get your 12 atma (in fact, the weapon is exactly the same as the zenith, barring the name). There is still the 13500 myth required (keep in mind that that the hard cap is 2000 myth, so you can't stock up prior) and the independent requirement for each book that you purchase. Even if you make it past the 12 atma phase, only the dedicated will get all of the myth required to make a full weapon.

[SublimeIbanez]

There are much better ways to do this (prevent buying it, that is) than putting the upgrade behind a tedious unrewarding RNG wall. And honestly, it's not the dedicated who have it, it's the lucky.

FWIW, I didn't buy my Relic and I think selling carries for stuff like this should be a bannable offense, but of course the "dedicated" mostly disagree with me on that because they want to sell them...

Selling instance clears is a different issue on itself, and arguments can be made on both sides (personally I don't like people that sell them, and people that succumb to the sellers are just as lazy as SE on this quest). On one side you can say they're selling something they can do, just like someone who can, and knows how to make high level crafted gear. But yeah, this might be a response to it, but it's a very lazy attempt at one.