Is this your first Final Fantasy? Or do you just not remember grinding in past games?

[Takeva]

And right after that you get you grind a lot of mobs, dungeons, specific fates and specific leves along with grinding up 13,500 myth tomes - Guess what? People still complained about that even though it's not "random and guaranteed."

I've yet to see anyone complain about the second part. On forums or in game. The proof about the first part is easy to see enough. Where is your proof about the second part. I am looking forward to it.

[Deathscythe343]

4 days is quickly? Interesting, I found the people with Animus weapons are the ones who completed it quickly.

You're actually making Jinko's point here.

[Amberion]

People keep defending this, saying it's suppose to be a grind so stop complaining. Or some people keep saying this is what we asked for, a grind that will give us something to do. A grind is collect or do x amount of whatever. Some one could finish it in 3 days while another probably a month. The difference is that both had done exactly the same achievement, showing their progression and it wasn't based on luck. It's based on the work they have done.

But just like you like to see the exact goal approchin, there are people who like the RNG system. They probably all hate low level FATE grinding though, but not RNG.

And well, removing RNG from an RPG, is sort of removing the rules from chess. It pretty much isn't an RPG anymore.

And btw, not saying all content need to be pure RNG based, but some never hurt when it comes to RPG.

[SendohJin]

4 days is quickly? Interesting, I found the people with Animus weapons are the ones who completed it quickly.

4 days is very quickly for something that's supposed to last till the next patch. but 4 days means different things to different people, 4 days can be 4 hours or 90 hours.

90 hours is a lot of time for just the first part of the quest, that's an hour everyday till the next major update.

[Takeva]

But just like you like to see the exact goal approchin, there are people who like the RNG system. They probably all hate low level FATE grinding though, but not RNG.

And well, removing RNG from an RPG, is sort of removing the rules from chess. It pretty much isn't an RPG anymore.

And btw, not saying all content need to be pure RNG based, but some never hurt when it comes to RPG.

There is nothing wrong with RNG, I'm not saying to completely take it away. The way they handled it in dungeons and such is fine. This fate RNG is an awful design. There are only a handful who like it and most of them didn't take long to get what they need. This is suppose to be a part of players conquest to get the ultimate relic or whatever. Yet 2.2 just came out and people are already finished or almost finished with it. Because they got lucky.

[Tupsi]

-snip-

This. I didn't do it in 4 days straight, in terms of hours it was 4 days spread between doing other stuff in-game. That's why I feel those that already have 'part 1' of the animus have done it fairly quickly when my 4 days total for atma alone is far from quickly lol, I don't know about others but I don't have the play time to be even past my first book after 2 days (now). The setup itself is obviously designed to last till next patch - Atma aside, there will almost always be a group of people who gets through everything fairly fast, though to my knowledge it's mainly on the JP side that have Animus done currently. SE clearly thought the high myth cost would be the "road block" since people would also want to buy gear for their other classes.

[Sunarie]

That's not being very fair, is it? Out of the 90 pages, it has not been all about complains but also a good deal of people supporting the way the quest is designed. My point isn't also about whether people like or hate grinding, but more to do with the magnitude of the grind in the second part of the quest and realising later that the first part is merely the appetiser and the second part the entrée.

Oh it's completely fair. If a thread created to complain about the myth grinding part got up to 90 pages it no doubt wouldn't be all complaints either, none of the long ones ever are. The kicker is it would have to be -mostly- complaints for the 90 pages (90 pages right now, it'll continue to get longer), because that's what the current one is.

My point is that people do not mind the -time- it takes to do the quest, but hate FATE grinding combined with horrific RNG. There are a ton of folks that wanted a longer relic quest, that's true, however the relic quest doesn't have to do the low level FATE plus RNG combination to be long. If it has to include FATEs then there's not a reason to include RNG to still keep it long. Plenty of people have offered other alternatives such as completing a certain number of FATEs in a zone, or doing every FATE in a zone.. or even introducing new FATEs that would have been similar to the NMs of FFXI that you needed to do. If you can't see the difference between combining FATEs with RNG and having a tong term goal to work towards that you can always see progress on after you spend hours doing it, I can't really help you there. I can say there are plenty of us that can, and it makes a big difference.

That also doesn't mean there aren't people that like RNG, and there is lots of content in the game for them. In fact, every other weapon in end game right now fits the RNG grind.

[Amberion]

There is nothing wrong with RNG, I'm not saying to completely take it away. The way they handled it in dungeons and such is fine. This fate RNG is an awful design. There are only a handful who like it and most of them didn't take long to get what they need. This is suppose to be a part of players conquest to get the ultimate relic or whatever. Yet 2.2 just came out and people are already finished or almost finished with it. Because they got lucky.

Ahh sorry, not meant to single out you as someone who would like to get rid of RNG completely. But more to those that said that regarding RNG in this thread.

[EasymodeX]

So much hate for the new elements that take more than a day to accomplish.

It takes more than a solid day of continuous grinding of completely irrelevant, useless, and un-fun content.

Coil 1-5 doesn't take a day. It takes an hour. It takes more than a day to learn it, and much more than a day to get good at it, but to actually do it, only an hour is required.

Atma acquisition takes a day. Or days. It's pure lottery RNG. The best part is that the content isn't even halfway interesting. At least Coil has mechanics, has gameplay, has story, has lore. E.g. content.

Spamming fates -- brb let me find a bot program to do this ******** **** for me.

There's a very clear difference between farming and grinding. Farming involves content that has some sort of gameplay value, and is typically highly optional. Grinding involves content with little to no gameplay value, with no "fun", for a mandatory or quasi-mandatory result.

Good MMO design vs. bad MMO design.

You know why TERA had a mass exodus at level 50? Because of pure lottery grind. Repeat the same exact content over a 100 times for a low lottery-RNG chance of a successful result.

That's the very definition of "Asian grinder" in the MMO space, and why FF11 was only a fringe title and disrespected by most of the MMO community.

[Naunet]

I got my atmas in a total of 8 hours.

And this is why RNG is such a curse to progression.

Incidentally, there's a reason I never played FFXI. (Never played any other Final Fantasy either...)