Feedback Regarding the Relic Upgrade Quest

[ToraFomalhaut]

I'd like to add my feedback to this matter. Now I don't mind a good grind fest, I've ground my way through countless JRPGs and loved almost every second of it. But who ever designed the Atma fate grinds got the content design wrong. Mindless spamming coupled with RGN drops is a poor combination, and is not hard, challenging content, it's just tedious and time consuming.

If you're going to use an RNG drop mechanic, you need to create challenging, enjoyable content. One on one boss fights that require some semblance of thought, challenge and skill to complete. Throw your echo buff in there if you're afraid it will be too difficult for some. Grinding content that is a challenge helps stop it from becoming a dull mindless spam fest and helps stimulate the pleasure centers of our brains when the item finally drops. Currently when an atma drops, I don't feel pleasure or elation, mostly I just feel a small amount of relief before heading onto the next area to spam.

If you're set on using the ridiculous recycled fate spam content, then you need to drop the RNG element of the content and use a progression bar to determine when the item will be rewarded. This helps people feel like they are nearing their goal and the hours upon hours of mindless, boring, tedious, spamming of fates doesn't seem so endless because you can see your goal slowly approaching. Yes it's still not the most fun styles of content but if you're going for a spammy grind fest over a challenging combat grind then at least it goes a long way towards saving the sanity those who spend 7 hours plus without seeing the RNG pay off with their drop.

[BMattAttack]

I'll add my two cents as well.

I'm not strictly opposed to grinding, thought I don't always enjoy it. I remember grinding for a mount with a friend once in another game. Doing that was kind of fun, because I did it with a friend. It felt like we were accomplishing something together. But what's happening with the FATEs isn't interesting for me. When I'm doing FATEs on a low level character for exp while sitting in queue, no problem. Running to Lower Lanocea to do level 8 FATEs on my level 50 character that end in about 30 seconds for hours at a time hoping for a random drop, however, is definitely not fun. There's no sense that I'm doing it with friends to accomplish something, just drudgery. To me the game is all about fun. I tried doing the FATEs, but I just can't hack it. It's not enjoyable or interesting at all, and I can't bring myself to do something like that.

It's sad too, because I really like the idea of purchasing books and working to fill them out for stat upgrades. I think that sounds awesome, even if it's grindy. Yeah, it'd be nice if we could customize the stats a bit. I definitely support increased customization in the game. But the books give a clear sense of progress. I'll never get to the books though, because the tedium of the entry requirement for that part of the quest is simply too much for me. I think there are other ways the 12 zodiac stones could have been implemented that would have been more engaging. I've read in several places about a progress bar you fill up. That would certainly be an improvement. I like the idea of getting maps that lead to a good challenging fight and then after winning the fight, you get the stone. If you wanted to keep the FATEs involved, you could make the map a drop from FATEs, but at much much higher drop rate.

I think a great idea would be a zodiac hunting log with 12 parts. You hunt down the creatures and when you complete a section, it's spawns a challenging boss fight. If you win the fight, you get the stone. If not, you can challenge it again. To me that's compelling, it's interesting. It would get people out exploring the world, which is definitely one worth exploring. It would give a good sense of progress and challenge. And, when it's all said in done, people would have a good sense of accomplishment. As it is right now, I don't have any hope of getting my atma or animus, because I simply don't have the willpower to start. Thankfully, I can get a good weapon through the other, quite excellent, content provided in 2.2.

[Deathscythe343]

farmed atmas this days , finally finished the quest, farmed tomes , bought the book.....

for +2 stat i have to do 3 dungeons (1 low , 1 mid and 1 experte) , kill lots of mobs (100) , do 3 leves , do 3 fates ....and thats just for +2 dex , after u finish all the work , gain 1500 tomes for another book /repeat

in the end 9 dex , 4 vit , 4 acc and 2 skill speed upgrade after a huge grind (27 dungeons , 900 mobs ,27 fates ,27 leves and 13.500 tomes)....at least i cant say that i have nothing to do

hope we are able to change the stats later on ,because skill speed ugh....

Honestly, I think that people would be on with this. At least they have a visible goal that they can see if being progressed upon. The problem with the total randomness is that all you can do it hope you get it.

[waldo]

Not good thoughts about this from me. The idea that a select few can have the atmas farmed in less than 12 hours and others it takes WAY over 100 hours is just horrible. You can force people to put time into something like this and I think that's just fine, however a system that is both unfair and infuriating is just plain bad. I don't think everyone should be 'handed' great items... but this, this is not really a 'fair' way of going about it.

Here's an wonderful idea. If people had the option to sell their atma all these complaints would go away. People would enjoy farming for something with monetary value, and the people that REALLY wanted the zodiac weapon fast would burn gil to get it.

[waldo]

farmed atmas this days , finally finished the quest, farmed tomes , bought the book.....

for +2 stat i have to do 3 dungeons (1 low , 1 mid and 1 experte) , kill lots of mobs (100) , do 3 leves , do 3 fates ....and thats just for +2 dex , after u finish all the work , gain 1500 tomes for another book /repeat

in the end 9 dex , 4 vit , 4 acc and 2 skill speed upgrade after a huge grind (27 dungeons , 900 mobs ,27 fates ,27 leves and 13.500 tomes)....at least i cant say that i have nothing to do

hope we are able to change the stats later on ,because skill speed ugh....

This part, I love! Even if you don't like the stats, there is a set 'grind' of things you have to do to complete the upgrade. Everyone has to do it, no exceptions! Anytime 1 person can get all Atma in a day and it's going to take others maybe thousands of FATEs to accomplish the same thing, crazy.

[TheRogueX]

FATES grinding is just the worst idea possible.

We hate FATE!! its a poor content!

Speak for yourself. Fates/Public Quests/Public Raidbosses/Legendary Monsters/etc... those things are awesome. Instancing has ruined the MMO by segregating all the players and dividing them into 'classes' based on if they raid or not and how often.

I seriously laugh at anyone who plays an instance-heavy, raid-heavy "modern" MMO and call themselves "hardcore," after I played Lineage II during the early days before they, too, gave in and implemented instancing. Some of the best moments in MMOs ever came from watching giant alliances duke it out over who would get to face the raid boss of a certain area. We're talking 200-400 players fighting each other for hours just to claim a boss.

Granted, I was not that kind of player and so eventually I burnt out because I couldn't keep up, but still... no game since has been "hardcore."

EDIT: To be fair, while I like FATEs, I don't think grinding them for Atmas was a good idea, at all.

[Ooshima]

In fact I have no problem with SE doing all these but....

WHAT, no Animus status available in 2.20 other than Holy Shield?

Well SE, if you want to restrict i100 weapon to either grinding levi and fight with RNG for the mirror or clear T7 for the Unidentified Allagan Tome (UAT), erm you could at least allow us to have the Animus like at... i95 right?

Same 12 Atmas to grind, and make us do 4 books of the braves and eventually get a i95 Relic Animus with stat and weapon damage upgrade. Then you can introduce the next 5 books in 2.25 for further upgrades to i100.

Then, I really don't mind. The disappointing moment is when I finally got my Atma weapon and traded in the 1,500 myth tomes that I've saved up to realize even if I complete all 4 books now, it's still no better than my Allagan Weapon

[RumiP]

Just to add my opinion.

Grinding Atma from FATEs I otherwise have zero interest in doing is simply not fun (for me). The game should be fun. That isn't. So I'm not doing it. I'd rather wait till I get one of the other weapons.

I hope they change it to another activity. At least with the book portion, you know where you are, and you see where your goal is.

That is all.

[Merle]

At least with the book portion, you know where you are, and you see where your goal is.

And sadly, you still have to do FATEs for the books... well, atleast is not RNG. You just have to wait around one hour (if you're unlucky) for one FATE and then get gold. Three times.

Not as bad as "farm 12 atmas", but still annoying... is the first thing i do once i buy one book just to get rid off it -.-

[Gesser]

Atma grind should've been conducted via Timeworn Maps instead of FATE's... think about it. Drop rate would be tweaked accordingly.