AOE Toggle Needs to GO

[Tsuga]

As one of the supporters to remove the AoE toggle, I absolutely agree. The clunkiness and the generic design of everything being AoE yes/no contributes to a lot of lazy gameplay and a bunch of OP mages who can just AoE the crap out of everything. No strategy, no critical decision making, no challenge, just lol-AoE button mashing (if you played a caster in WoW-WotLK, you know what I'm talking about).

With the introduction of jobs and the release of 1.18 being delayed, I get the feeling that the devs may be completely rewriting the CON and THM spellbooks. It won't just be every spell we have now split into single/AoE versions. I'm thinking unique names with more single-target only, and just a few AoE's. I would much prefer this over what we have now.

If this is what they have in mind, keeping the toggle would have made no sense.

Again, this is an issue of MP cost/hate/damage spread balancing, and not an issue with the toggle itself.

If spells cost more to AoE, then people wouldn't AoE cure when unnecessary. If spells drew in more hate when in AoE, then we DEFINITELY wouldn't be AoE curing all of the time (because we'd be dead). If the amount healed were decreased, then AoE curing would only be useful if the mob casts an AoE attack/spell, or special situations.

As for AoE attack, the same could be applied, but I think people are generally smarter about using AoE spells, considering they don't want to aggro the 5 coblyns that are surrounding their leve targets (though when people get stupid and don't toggle it off, then die, they come here and whine in this thread).

You still make no points for why TOGGLE is the cause of this issue, or how removing it would change anything. It would carry over into AoE specific spells just the same.

[Rowyne]

You still make no points for why TOGGLE is the cause of this issue, or how removing it would change anything. It would carry over into AoE specific spells just the same.

What if there is a complete rewrite of the spellbook and there is no single-target counterpart?

Which is basically saying that you don't like the AoE because you feel its unnecessary to take one little extra step to hit said button? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Its lazy if people want to use it, but its not lazy if people think it is inconvenient to take the extra step to use it?

Not hypocritical at all because it promotes laziness on both sides. Having to confirm/toggle at every spell creates redundancy and frustration. You look for the most efficient route and minimal amount of button presses, which is to just keep the AoE on and button mash. This contributes to laziness and lack of decision making. And why shouldn't you play this way if there is no enmity/MP penalty?

[KaiKatzchen]

Not hypocritical at all because it promotes laziness on both sides. Having to confirm/toggle at every spell creates redundancy and frustration. You look for the most efficient route and minimal amount of button presses, which is to just keep the AoE on and button mash. This contributes to laziness and lack of decision making. And why shouldn't you play this way if there is no enmity/MP penalty?

I don't feel that it creates redundancy and frustration. I believe that creating a spell that can be both single target and AoE is very smart. A player has less spells that they have to deal with, less ability's that they have to scroll though looking for said spells and less items to try and fit on their bar seeing that:

Cure = AoE and Single target = 1 slot = more space for additional abilities.

Cure and Curega = 2 slots - less space for additional abilities.

Frustration and redundancy to me is looking at my spell list and seeing 20 fire spells because half are single and half are -ga spells for AoE.

Also, I look for the most efficient route that will help my group the best. Keeping AoE on at all times is silly because it only causes problems especially if other mobs are around, and it helps no one because if used improperly it only causes more mobs for the rest of your party and could kill them. AoE should only be used when it is necessary or there are already multi-mobs involved in said fight or if curing a party.

Anyway what honestly is the difference between having one spell that you can toggle by pressing a button or having multi-spells because one has to be single attack and AoE attack. And actually now that I think about it.. why would someone want to get rid of toggle in favor of such a system due to the fact that they hate button mashing? Won't having more spells to have to deal with to get the same effect that the current system has equal more button mashing in the end?

It seems to me that people who just turn on AoE and leave it on because they don't want to hit a button don't know how to properly play using said button... or are just lazy. If that is the issue, that that is not the problem of the people who enjoy and know how to use the toggle function properly.

But it seems that ya'll got your way, as I said, if it ends up even worse I'll just laugh if ya'll start complaining about how you hate the new system because of whatever reason people decide to come up with... and I know someone is gonna make some kinda thread about it when it comes out.

[Arcell]

Not hypocritical at all because it promotes laziness on both sides. Having to confirm/toggle at every spell creates redundancy and frustration. You look for the most efficient route and minimal amount of button presses, which is to just keep the AoE on and button mash. This contributes to laziness and lack of decision making. And why shouldn't you play this way if there is no enmity/MP penalty?

Except you don't have to hit it every time you cast a spell, only every time you want to turn AoE on or off which makes you look even lazier. You don't want to occasionally hit a button to toggle AoE. Is that not lazy?

A good player won't AoE everything anyway, they will do so where there is need.

Also as has been said over and over again the issue of MP cost/hate/potency has nothing to do with the actual toggle and could be tweaked without the removal of the toggle. This thread was specifically asking for the removal of toggle alone, not for MP cost/hate/potency mechanics.

[Felis]

Not hypocritical at all because it promotes laziness on both sides. Having to confirm/toggle at every spell creates redundancy and frustration. You look for the most efficient route and minimal amount of button presses, which is to just keep the AoE on and button mash. This contributes to laziness and lack of decision making. And why shouldn't you play this way if there is no enmity/MP penalty?

You don't need to confirm the toogle with every spell. Only when you turn aoe on or off (with the key Z). What you need to confirm with every spell is your sub target (with the key Return), what you still need without the toogle.