AOE Toggle Needs to GO

[KaiKatzchen]

I could argue that singling us out into the category of "DD" and "Healer" dumbs down the experience even more. As a healer, all I would be doing is focusing on healing the party, and have no other responsibilities. As a DD, all I'd be doing is mashing nukes. The way the game is now, I end up thinking about both healing and DD at the same time, and if we have a mage in the party dedicated to healing or nuking, I can support them one way or the other if they need help. It makes my job a lot more diverse, and interesting than just being forced to heal OR DD. I get to do both, and I have to consider both when I'm playing.

I went into this game thinking that I would STRICTLY be a healer, because I thought I would be forced down one path or another (coming from XI). To my surprise, it was easy to balance both healing and DD, so now I function as both, or one with the side of the other when needed. The game doesn't PIGEON-HOLE by force. I have an effing choice. That is something special that XIV has going for it that most games don't.

Anyway, to bring this back around to the point: if removing AoE Toggle pidgeon holes me, as a CON, into a category of healer, OR DD, then I hate the idea even more. Please SE, don't nerf us up our collective asses with whatever you're planning.

Agreed, but I feel like even that is being taken away from us now... but +1! I like your post a lot.

[Terabyt3]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...lution-for-AoE

[Rowyne]

Giving us EVERYTHING, defeats the purpose of the Multiplayer portion of the MMO. And I will stick by my choice, I am glad they are getting rid of the AoE toggle (not because it was annoying, not because it was confusing; just because I want more encouragement to have a strategic party experience and less button spamming)

As one of the supporters to remove the AoE toggle, I absolutely agree. The clunkiness and the generic design of everything being AoE yes/no contributes to a lot of lazy gameplay and a bunch of OP mages who can just AoE the crap out of everything. No strategy, no critical decision making, no challenge, just lol-AoE button mashing (if you played a caster in WoW-WotLK, you know what I'm talking about).

With the introduction of jobs and the release of 1.18 being delayed, I get the feeling that the devs may be completely rewriting the CON and THM spellbooks. It won't just be every spell we have now split into single/AoE versions. I'm thinking unique names with more single-target only, and just a few AoE's. I would much prefer this over what we have now.

If this is what they have in mind, keeping the toggle would have made no sense.

[Tsuga]

As one of the supporters to remove the AoE toggle, I absolutely agree. The clunkiness and the generic design of everything being AoE yes/no contributes to a lot of lazy gameplay and a bunch of OP mages who can just AoE the crap out of everything. No strategy, no critical decision making, no challenge, just lol-AoE button mashing (if you played a caster in WoW-WotLK, you know what I'm talking about).

With the introduction of jobs and the release of 1.18 being delayed, I get the feeling that the devs may be completely rewriting the CON and THM spellbooks. It won't just be every spell we have now split into single/AoE versions. I'm thinking unique names with more single-target only, and just a few AoE's. I would much prefer this over what we have now.

If this is what they have in mind, keeping the toggle would have made no sense.

Again, this is an issue of MP cost/hate/damage spread balancing, and not an issue with the toggle itself.

If spells cost more to AoE, then people wouldn't AoE cure when unnecessary. If spells drew in more hate when in AoE, then we DEFINITELY wouldn't be AoE curing all of the time (because we'd be dead). If the amount healed were decreased, then AoE curing would only be useful if the mob casts an AoE attack/spell, or special situations.

As for AoE attack, the same could be applied, but I think people are generally smarter about using AoE spells, considering they don't want to aggro the 5 coblyns that are surrounding their leve targets (though when people get stupid and don't toggle it off, then die, they come here and whine in this thread).

You still make no points for why TOGGLE is the cause of this issue, or how removing it would change anything. It would carry over into AoE specific spells just the same.

[KaiKatzchen]

As one of the supporters to remove the AoE toggle, I absolutely agree. The clunkiness and the generic design of everything being AoE yes/no contributes to a lot of lazy gameplay and a bunch of OP mages who can just AoE the crap out of everything. No strategy, no critical decision making, no challenge, just lol-AoE button mashing (if you played a caster in WoW-WotLK, you know what I'm talking about).

So are you're saying that it's makes people lazy to use the AoE on/off button and switching when needed depending on the circumstances of the fight? Yet you said your very first post:

I agree. I hate the AoE toggle. I'm tired of having a giant green button pop up in my face every time I cast a spell. Having to click it with my mouse or hit my enter button is an unnecessary extra confirmation. And I'm tired of the frustration of when I accidentally do one when I wanted to do the other.

Which is basically saying that you don't like the AoE because you feel its unnecessary to take one little extra step to hit said button? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Its lazy if people want to use it, but its not lazy if people think it is inconvenient to take the extra step to use it?

Also there is a time to use AoE and a time to not use AoE depending on the circumstances, taking away toggle and adding in extra spells to do the same thing that toggle does will not change this. If people can't use the toggle and learn when and when not to use AoE, people will have to learn it with their spells anyway. Now people will just have to add more spells and equip said spells and make sure they are hitting the right spell etc... instead of hitting one little simple button.

[EdenArchangel]

As one of the supporters to remove the AoE toggle, I absolutely agree. The clunkiness and the generic design of everything being AoE yes/no contributes to a lot of lazy gameplay and a bunch of OP mages who can just AoE the crap out of everything. No strategy, no critical decision making, no challenge, just lol-AoE button mashing (if you played a caster in WoW-WotLK, you know what I'm talking about).

With the introduction of jobs and the release of 1.18 being delayed, I get the feeling that the devs may be completely rewriting the CON and THM spellbooks. It won't just be every spell we have now split into single/AoE versions. I'm thinking unique names with more single-target only, and just a few AoE's. I would much prefer this over what we have now.

If this is what they have in mind, keeping the toggle would have made no sense.

I agree with Rowyne on so many things it seems.

The AoE toggle for every spell is cheap -- heal everyone or nuke everything for the same mp and no explosive hate spike.

The extra on/off with the Z button is the least of my issues.

[Rowyne]

You still make no points for why TOGGLE is the cause of this issue, or how removing it would change anything. It would carry over into AoE specific spells just the same.

What if there is a complete rewrite of the spellbook and there is no single-target counterpart?

Which is basically saying that you don't like the AoE because you feel its unnecessary to take one little extra step to hit said button? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Its lazy if people want to use it, but its not lazy if people think it is inconvenient to take the extra step to use it?

Not hypocritical at all because it promotes laziness on both sides. Having to confirm/toggle at every spell creates redundancy and frustration. You look for the most efficient route and minimal amount of button presses, which is to just keep the AoE on and button mash. This contributes to laziness and lack of decision making. And why shouldn't you play this way if there is no enmity/MP penalty?

[Tsuga]

I agree with Rowyne on so many things it seems.

The AoE toggle for every spell is cheap -- heal everyone or nuke everything for the same mp and no explosive hate spike.

The extra on/off with the Z button is the least of my issues.

Refer to my post in response to Rowyne to see why your point is moot.

What if there is a complete rewrite of the spellbook and there is no single-target counterpart?

Then this is how cure would work? I don't see what you're getting at. If cure is an AoE spell, then it's an AoE spell. It doesn't hurt anybody. It makes it so there's no point in having a healing focused CON, which is great, because it would encourage multitasking as a CON, and focus healing as a WHM (which would probably get buffs/extra spells to make it better specialized). CON functions just fine when it isn't being pigeon-holed into a healing/DD role, and auto-AoEing cure would only serve to support it. Same goes for THM and Sacrifice.

Not hypocritical at all because it promotes laziness on both sides. Having to confirm/toggle at every spell creates redundancy and frustration. You look for the most efficient route and minimal amount of button presses, which is to just keep the AoE on and button mash. This contributes to laziness and lack of decision making. And why shouldn't you play this way if there is no enmity/MP penalty?

With the way spells are balanced now it makes sense to keep Cure AoE if all you're doing is supporting, however if you keep AoE toggled when you're playing jack of all trades CON, you're going to be in a lot of trouble when you start pulling an entire room of mobs in the Mines. The only people that do this aren't paying attention to what they're doing, and removing toggle would not change that. They'd still end up hitting the wrong macros/actions, because they're inattentive. Again, not a problem with the toggle, but a problem with the player, and a problem with spell balance (which is all you guys seem to go on about, as if it were AoE toggle's fault that MP balance and hate are messed up).

[KaiKatzchen]

Not hypocritical at all because it promotes laziness on both sides. Having to confirm/toggle at every spell creates redundancy and frustration. You look for the most efficient route and minimal amount of button presses, which is to just keep the AoE on and button mash. This contributes to laziness and lack of decision making. And why shouldn't you play this way if there is no enmity/MP penalty?

I don't feel that it creates redundancy and frustration. I believe that creating a spell that can be both single target and AoE is very smart. A player has less spells that they have to deal with, less ability's that they have to scroll though looking for said spells and less items to try and fit on their bar seeing that:

Cure = AoE and Single target = 1 slot = more space for additional abilities.

Cure and Curega = 2 slots - less space for additional abilities.

Frustration and redundancy to me is looking at my spell list and seeing 20 fire spells because half are single and half are -ga spells for AoE.

Also, I look for the most efficient route that will help my group the best. Keeping AoE on at all times is silly because it only causes problems especially if other mobs are around, and it helps no one because if used improperly it only causes more mobs for the rest of your party and could kill them. AoE should only be used when it is necessary or there are already multi-mobs involved in said fight or if curing a party.

Anyway what honestly is the difference between having one spell that you can toggle by pressing a button or having multi-spells because one has to be single attack and AoE attack. And actually now that I think about it.. why would someone want to get rid of toggle in favor of such a system due to the fact that they hate button mashing? Won't having more spells to have to deal with to get the same effect that the current system has equal more button mashing in the end?

It seems to me that people who just turn on AoE and leave it on because they don't want to hit a button don't know how to properly play using said button... or are just lazy. If that is the issue, that that is not the problem of the people who enjoy and know how to use the toggle function properly.

But it seems that ya'll got your way, as I said, if it ends up even worse I'll just laugh if ya'll start complaining about how you hate the new system because of whatever reason people decide to come up with... and I know someone is gonna make some kinda thread about it when it comes out.

[StudyGuy]

A simple rebalanced enmity system based on AoE/Single and variable spell costs dependent on which version you use would nip this in but bud for me. I personally don't see the toggle as clunky in the slightest for people, but then again... that is my opinion.