Compilation: Capped Dungeons, pro and contra arguments

[Rinsui]

I'll be afk until tomorrow, but will include all further arguments then. Please try to be concise and to-the-point. Maybe we can at least compile a list that will help people understand what the fuss is about.

Chin, included most of your arguments but one:

Since the parties will be formed of only 4 people, X and Y jobs will soon be identified as the most effective ones by the community. Some players will have a hard time finding groups (who doesn’t know people who got frustrated and quit because they picked up dragoon and dark knight when FFXI launched?).

Having a cap of r30 means that people can use their sub-jobs (if their job isn’t effective for the content) or rank one up on in few days (even if they’re casuals).

Reason: Too complicated, and too corcumstantial. It's a valid point, no doubt, but try to explain that with two sentences...

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Also, they can still make valuable r30 gear that can be turned into r40 and r50 drop in this dungeon if it’s capped. Otherwise, the gear will lose all its value if the dungeon can be rushed ...

this should be added to the argument for pro-cap about the currency exemple. So by allowing cap things like upgradable gears that the starting gear is obtainable in low level dungeon is possible. Just ties in with the depth development that becomes possible to the devs if they go with cap. As opposed to no-cap that allows for shallow content upon shallow content.

[Krausus]

This argument works on both sides ... We’re actually not free to decide the degree of the challenge in an uncapped dungeon either ... Everything will be easy if your main and favorite class is r50 (like the majority of the current active players).

Yes you are, all you need to do is decide not to take a rank 50 in there with you

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Yes you are, all you need to do is decide not to take a rank 50 in there with you

that is true, but at some point everyone will have classes over 30 and a new player coming in trying to actually get a party of 4 30s will have a really hard time.
1- because of the lack of available people at rank 30,
2- because the available people also have to have a complementing class
3-there will be more people just wanting to have an easy run and have a 50 tag along since they probably already seen the place.

[Krausus]

that is true, but at some point everyone will have classes over 30 and a new player coming in trying to actually get a party of 4 30s will have a really hard time.
1- because of the lack of available people at rank 30,
2- because the available people also have to have a complementing class
3-there will be more people just wanting to have an easy run and have a 50 tag along since they probably already seen the place.

but there is plenty of time for that, you already know my biggest worry is taking time away from content development, and i have already stated that adding a cap feature when more time permits is fine with me, but as fragile as FFXIV is at this moment the devs IMO need to focus on adding unique content and get this game ready for PS3 release, not finding ways to make the same content more repeatable, I mean where have you been for the last 9 months I know I have been here repeating everything, I'm tired of repeating everything.

[Rinsui]

and i have already stated that adding a cap feature when more time permits is fine with me,

You mean like... adding a maximum level into the entry check algorithm on top of the minimum level one already in place would take a significant amount of time?

[Krausus]

You mean like... adding a maximum level into the entry check algorithm on top of the minimum level one already in place would take a significant amount of time?

you forget all the balancing that would need to take place as well to de-rank someone to the proper rank including de-ranking their gear, or do you expect everyone that wants to participate also has to buy all new gear to do so? Its not as cut and dry as you try and make it out to be, I guarantee it would take them months to implement such a system.

Also not sure if you are talking about the same cap system everyone else is.

[Spitfire]

My vote goes with capped thanks for the recap.

[Chinook]

It's a valid point, no doubt, but try to explain that with two sentences...

You just discovered my weakness ... English is not my main language, so it's hard for me to be clear and consise.

I guess it was just further details of the "high level characters in a low level dungeon will become the norm" argument.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

but there is plenty of time for that, you already know my biggest worry is taking time away from content development, and i have already stated that adding a cap feature when more time permits is fine with me, but as fragile as FFXIV is at this moment the devs IMO need to focus on adding unique content and get this game ready for PS3 release, not finding ways to make the same content more repeatable, I mean where have you been for the last 9 months I know I have been here repeating everything, I'm tired of repeating everything.

Your point is valid and ill paste what I said earlier in another thread:

I'll stress the fact that no cap on those (and upcoming) dungeons just make them shallow and nothing can be built on it. If that is their intent, then I don't care for the to stay uncapped if they are not rewarding any type of lasting gears/fame/rep/items/currency.

That said, if they are just shallow content for SP, not rewarding any type of lasting gears/fame/rep/items/currency, I really hope for them to make more content that have some depths to them and that things like story missions and fights are capped and must be completed under cap in order to progress.

So both type of content can be viable, as long as one does not set a predecedent and norm for any upcoming content.

but to be fair, it would be lame if they were just another mean to SP... they could just fix the leves, behest and make party grind viable to serve that end and give dungeons a BCNM feel but with a dungeon concept to them.