This game is play to win.

[Sunarie]

No question it gives an advantage. But there will always be someone with an advantage over you no matter what. I don't actually have a lot of time to play. characterlimitsnip.

Can't really argue with anything you just said. The problem (for me) just comes in when people can pay extra to get the advantage, as that's the very thing I choose subs to avoid. That advantage doesn't have to be a pay 2 win thing, it can very easily be a pay 2 get ahead thing. I still choose subs games to avoid it because historically, they have been the "everyone pays the fee, everyone gets access to all the stuff (save for some cosmetic items)." Just differing opinions is all. I do want to thank you for not being rude about it though.. and I do agree that folks are highly over reacting with the whole cries of pay 2 win (this is actually the only thread I've posted in about the situation).

[HoneyBiscuit]

Snip all day every day

Yeah, I know. This thread isn't really to tell people to ignore the retainer thing and suck it up. I don't much like it either. It's not that big of a deal as far as granting an advantage. But my point was only it's not pay2win, and XIV is nowhere close to pay2win. If people don't like it, they by all means should complain. But trying to make it sound worse than it is, is just counter productive. People end up sounding like raving idiots, rather than someone with legitimate concerns.

And yeah, I try not to be a douche unless someone feels the need to insult me, or thinks they're much more clever than they are.

[Gextiv]

Yeah, I know. This thread isn't really to tell people to ignore the retainer thing and suck it up. I don't much like it either. It's not that big of a deal as far as granting an advantage. But my point was only it's not pay2win, and XIV is nowhere close to pay2win. If people don't like it, they by all means should complain. But trying to make it sound worse than it is, is just counter productive. People end up sounding like raving idiots, rather than someone with legitimate concerns.

And yeah, I try not to be a douche unless someone feels the need to insult me, or thinks they're much more clever than they are.

"granting an advantage"

That's pay to win, period. However minuscule the advantage maybe be, is completely irrelevant.

[HoneyBiscuit]

"granting advantage"

Then the game has been pay to win since its release. Getting more characters than someone else is a paid advantage. Why is that not pay 2 win but the retainers are?

I'd instruct you to read the thread yourself and find a real definition of pay2win before spouting inane crap but it would fall on deaf ears in this case anyway. Good day to you sir.

[Musashidon]

Then the game has been pay to win since its release. Getting more characters than someone else is a paid advantage. Why is that not pay 2 win but the retainers are?

I'd instruct you to read the thread yourself and find a real definition of pay2win before spouting inane crap but it would fall on deaf ears in this case anyway. Good day to you sir.

this game has been pay2win since it went pay2play

since anyone not paying can't play everyone is paying to be better then everyone not.

[Gextiv]

Then the game has been pay to win since its release. Getting more characters than someone else is a paid advantage. Why is that not pay 2 win but the retainers are?

I'd instruct you to read the thread yourself and find a real definition of pay2win before spouting inane crap but it would fall on deaf ears in this case anyway. Good day to you sir.

Oh please, paying for more characters is mere convenience--in other words, it is pay for convenience.

The 2.2 retainers will bring a unique advantage--the type of advantage that's pay to win, regardless of how much of an advantage it brings to the table.

[HoneyBiscuit]

Oh please, paying for more characters is mere convenience--in other words, it is pay for convenience.

The 2.2 retainers will bring a unique advantage--the type of advantage that's pay to win, regardless of how much of an advantage it brings to the table.

I don't even. I can't even. I am literally unable to even.

You contradicted yourself. I was going to respond. But you did it for me. Thank you.