This game is play to win.

[HoneyBiscuit]

I'm so sick of logging on after work, and seeing people with more time than me getting more and more stuff done. I can only play for a couple hours a night so SE shouldn't let anyone else play until I can. I'm worried about the direction this game is headed. If SE doesn't stop people from playing more than me soon, I will quit. Like this post if you want this game to stop being play to win. #notenoughtime #playtowinsuxlol #yoloswag



Seriously, the pay to win threads are getting old. The additional retainers do not stop you from playing the entirety of the game. It's not pay 2 win. It's nowhere close. Think we can just. . . stop?

[Arkghyom]

Aww, take care!

[TeaTimeBear]

Aww, take care!

Read thoroughly next time.

[Arkghyom]

Read thoroughly next time.

Like you did?

[Starkiller]

I agree, the two extra Retainers option does not equate to a Pay to Win system. I'm not going to greatly progress character levels by profiting off of Retainers! If anything I am going to earn an extra piece of usable gear here and there. I am going to be able to auto-farm some crafting materials. Big deal!

Personally I dont think I need another Retainer right now, but the option is there if I decide to enable it.

[Nuinn]

Stop the forums? Hell will freeze before that happens! o_O

On a more serious note, different people have different reasons for protesting. Some may have had bad experiences with cash shops and micro transactions in their previous games. Some don't really know what to expect but they see an option to pay extra for something they think they'll need so they don't fall back on progress or whatever. Some dislike feeling like they should pay anything more on top of a monthly subscription etc. If no one complained that would mean that either no one cares about what's happening to the game or that SE is doing it completely right.

Lastly, none of us still know how exactly it will work, in terms of what the impact of having more retainers than the guy next to you will have on your account and the global server economy. You can all save the "Lolwhat economy?" jokes It's there, it might be bad but.... it's there /shrug

[HoneyBiscuit]

I do not mean to stop the complaints. Complaints are good. Complaints outline issues people have with the game. I mean to stop the ridiculous overreaction. Not getting the extra retainers will not hurt your ability to play the game in the slightest. Just like people with far more time to play than you doesn't affect your ability to enjoy the game either. Which is the point of the stupid "play to win" OP.

Nobody complains about people who can make 8 characters per server as opposed to 1. Shouldn't that be pay to win? People with multiple accounts should be considered pay to win too right? People have extra character slots and extra accounts for things like more retainers. This should be viewed as a far cheaper, more easily managed, and less time consuming alternative to what people already do.

And here's hoping the glamour prisms and new recipes boost the economy a bit huh?

[Sunarie]

Nobody complains about people who can make 8 characters per server as opposed to 1. Shouldn't that be pay to win? People with multiple accounts should be considered pay to win too right? People have extra character slots and extra accounts for things like more retainers.

Just on a personal note.. I think the "pay more for more characters" doesn't get complained about because it's seen as a discount and not something they're paying extra to get. The standard MMO fee gives you all the character slots, the reduced fee gives you one. I have definitely seen people complaining about multi-boxing (multiple accounts) being unfair.

All that being said, I don't think retainers are a "pay to win" mechanic, but I also do not approve of them being in there. The whole reason I prefer sub based games is to get access to everything (save for cosmetic stuff generally) with one fee. So that one person who's paying more doesn't get a step up regarding actual in game stuff. So far, the retainer doesn't do that.. but they easily could if SE decides to try and "promote" them.. by say, making the ventures stuff apply to those retainers too, so people who have paid can maybe get higher quality, or rare materials much quicker than those who have not. There is stuff I'm okay with being in a cash shop for a sub based game. Costumes, transfers, name changes, fantasia potions, even mounts or pets I don't truly have a problem with.. assuming the mounts are the same speed people have in game and all.

People having more time than me.. well. I don't care about that bit. They put in the work, they got the thing, they deserve it. If I put in the same amount of work, I can get the thing too.

[HoneyBiscuit]

Snip and stuff

I'm not saying you can't disagree with the additional retainers. Hell I'm not saying I agree with them. I'm saying people need to stop calling it pay 2 win. It's not. People constantly spout "pay to win" but I don't think it means what they think it means. I remember someone saying pay to win in a thread about fantasia. I mean we all know lalafell give maximum dps so nobody should get fantasia potions.

The distinction is whether or not the optional services gate your progress in the game. Like needing to use a cash shop for gear strong enough to clear end game dungeons. It's so obvious what's wrong with that.

I will concede this thread if someone can provide irrefutable evidence that extra retainers are in fact, required to access all areas of content this game has to offer. I will agree this game is pay 2 win, unsub, and send that poster noodz(I'm male so make sure you know what you're getting into)

these forums are all about complaining. seriously, I don't even know why I check out the forums anymore. now, we're complaining about people complaining. so i'm going to complain about you complaining about other people complaining. take that!

I'm going to complain about your complaint of me complaining in a complaint thread about the complaints of others. Complain.

Complaints are good. If no one complained SE will think everyone is happy. Complaints have gotten them to make changes in game already. Nobody should stop complaining. Just don't forget to give SE your love too.

I've no issue with the complaints of others. I've issue with the giant overreaction to the so called "pay2win" retainers.

[Orophin]

There is a HUGE difference between pay2win and pay4convenience. Pay2win is what you see when you get cash shops that offer gear/weapons/buffs that A) can't be found in-game by any other means, and B) are so OP compared to in-game gear/buffs/weapons that they become almost mandatory for you to be effective in game against other people using them.

It's semantics really. If Ventures can be undertaken on all retainers then the guy that can pay $4 more a month than the next guy clearly has an in-game advantage, (regardless of how small it may seem) and this goes against the spirit of subscription games.