This game is play to win.

[skaterger]

Games don't just go P2W suddenly, the developers usually throw in a guinea pig or two here and there to test the waters. If the reception is good. they might go a little further next time and slowly build up their database of real money transactions. I'm not saying this is P2W, but it could be the start of something. So I'm still going to play the game but not pay for the extra retainers.

[HoneyBiscuit]

Don't play MMO's. /thread.

Oh yeah, I'll go play a console game like Dead Space 3. No cash shop there. #thereisactually
It was expected to be used in lieu of actually farming for resources too. To the point of EA claiming that by not using it people were stealing from the company. Glad to see pay to win is trying to work its way into console games too (I'm not). Not really the point of the thread though.

Games don't just go P2W suddenly, the developers usually throw in a guinea pig or two here and there to test the waters. If the reception is good. they might go a little further next time and slowly build up their database of real money transactions. I'm not saying this is P2W, but it could be the start of something. So I'm still going to play the game but not pay for the extra retainers.

Yeah but it's entirely possible for an MMO to subsist on a subscription and still have a cash shop and not be pay to win. For example World of Warcraft. It's had a cash shop providing nonsense crap that doesnt affect your game in any substantial way for a couple years now. No way are they going pay to win, or pay to anything but stupid cosmetic crap that nobody actually needs but still want. And most games that are pay to win are like that from the start, or at least you can see it coming a mile away. For instance, Wakfu gave you a 25% damage boost for preordering the game. Pay to win before official release.

[Sunarie]

I'm not saying you can't disagree with the additional retainers. Hell I'm not saying I agree with them. I'm saying people need to stop calling it pay 2 win. It's not. People constantly spout "pay to win" but I don't think it means what they think it means. I remember someone saying pay to win in a thread about fantasia. I mean we all know lalafell give maximum dps so nobody should get fantasia potions.
snipy

I do agree that it's not pay to win.. whether or not it gives someone an advantage I don't know enough to say yet. I did read something from the interview that the ventures are going to result in some unique items that can't be farmed otherwise. Without knowing how important those items are, or what they're used for.. I can't really say whether having multiple gives anyone any sort of advantage beyond bag space (as much as I don't like the idea of paying for bag space in a sub game).

[HoneyBiscuit]

pay2snip

No question it gives an advantage. But there will always be someone with an advantage over you no matter what. I don't actually have a lot of time to play. I'm way behind on content, and I'm not mad at others for being ahead of me, because they aren't stopping me from playing. Even not paying for retainers gives me a 2-4 dollar advantage over those who do. Someone out there who makes the same amount of money as me one day won't be able to buy that Pepsi. And I'll be home, bathing in it because screw that guy.

The only time this kind of thing becomes a problem is when we aren't paying for an optional service. When instead of paying something for some small leg up, you're paying more than you are already, to continue your progress in the game. Faith in Square seems to be lost on these forums. I have faith we'll not see anything game breaking or pay 2 win in this mmo in a long time if ever.

[FoxiLady]

P2P = monthly sub with cash shop full of vanity and non P2W items
F2P = cash shop that is P2W and empty your bank account

There is now a new term called *Freemium* which MOST games are heading towards which is a monthly sub PLUS a P2W cash shop. Yep I know you don't have to pay the monthly sub BUT they make the bonuses so good its hard not to.

As much as I wish we were still in the past where the sub paid for all times have changed.

OP I totally loved your opening post and I promise I will walk slower in future so that you can catch up to me <3

[Sheer]

I'm so sick of logging on after work, and seeing people with more time than me getting more and more stuff done. I can only play for a couple hours a night so SE shouldn't let anyone else play until I can. I'm worried about the direction this game is headed. If SE doesn't stop people from playing more than me soon, I will quit. Like this post if you want this game to stop being play to win.

I had to take the hashtags out of this quote because... Well, Twitter is the only place they belong. :P

I think the concern with retainers has some validity, but a lot of people are blowing it out of proportion. Glad to see you trying to lighten the mood, though - these forums need more comic relief...

[klepp0906]

THANK GOD! WHen i saw your title I was PRAYING this was a troll attempt. I was about to shoot fire from my rectum and fly off the handle cyber-style! All i can say is squeenix made their bed and now they have to lay in it. When you create a game around ease of play, instnat gratification, and then borrow tons of features from the bane of the entire genre (blizzard) all in order to poach more subs, this is what happens. You have kids crying that things are too hard, things require too much time (they would literally have a conniption if they played a real mmo) and they will continue to cry until SQueenix brings it down to their level. Unfortunately their parents are payingt he same amount of money we are and as you learn in pscychology via the bell curve, their are simply more of them than their are of us. Its why im praying for Pantheon to come through.

[Sfarzoso]

P2P = monthly sub with cash shop full of vanity and non P2W items
F2P = cash shop that is P2W and empty your bank account

There is now a new term called *Freemium* which MOST games are heading towards which is a monthly sub PLUS a P2W cash shop. Yep I know you don't have to pay the monthly sub BUT they make the bonuses so good its hard not to.

As much as I wish we were still in the past where the sub paid for all times have changed.

OP I totally loved your opening post and I promise I will walk slower in future so that you can catch up to me <3

Yep... A lot of what you said is like, how WoW aimed, pay 60 bucks and begin the game a level 90!

[HoneyBiscuit]

I had to take the hashtags out of this quote because... Well, Twitter is the only place they belong. :P

I think the concern with retainers has some validity, but a lot of people are blowing it out of proportion. Glad to see you trying to lighten the mood, though - these forums need more comic relief...

I hate hashtags. They're stupid. That's why I put them into the OP. Because the OP is stupid too, intentionally.

THANK GOD! WHen i saw your title I was PRAYING this was a troll attempt. I was about to shoot fire from my rectum and fly off the handle cyber-style! All i can say is squeenix made their bed and now they have to lay in it. When you create a game around ease of play, instnat gratification, and then borrow tons of features from the bane of the entire genre (blizzard) all in order to poach more subs, this is what happens. You have kids crying that things are too hard, things require too much time (they would literally have a conniption if they played a real mmo) and they will continue to cry until SQueenix brings it down to their level. Unfortunately their parents are payingt he same amount of money we are and as you learn in pscychology via the bell curve, their are simply more of them than their are of us. Its why im praying for Pantheon to come through.

I think you might have missed the point. Or you're just a little off topic. I don't disagree with what you're saying, but this thread is just taking something non-existant and blowing it out of proportion. Much like this game going pay2win over this retainer business. And I don't "attempt" to troll, I do it masterfully. This thread is not for trolling though. It's serious under the guise of something completely ridiculous. True, Blizzard has turned itself towards casuals, but I think they do a good job of giving the hardcores something tough to do too. I don't think they're as a big a bane as you seem to think. They're doin something right apparently.

There is now a new term called *Freemium* which MOST games are heading towards which is a monthly sub PLUS a P2W cash shop. Yep I know you don't have to pay the monthly sub BUT they make the bonuses so good its hard not to.

Freemium is more along the lines of a free to play game with the full content locked to subscribers only. It doesn't always have a pay2win cash shop too. The free part of freemium is it being free to play. The premium part is full content being available to subscribers. There is nothing really wrong with this concept until your subscribers need to pay more to unlock more content making it pay2win. . . or pay more2win as it would be. Dungeons and Dragons Online is freemium. The Old Republic is freemium. In both of those cases, a base portion of the game is available to all. But, the real content is for the subscribers. (I think WoW is technically freemium now too though now that I think about it.)

[saber_alter]

There is now a new term called *Freemium* which MOST games are heading towards which is a monthly sub PLUS a P2W cash shop. Yep I know you don't have to pay the monthly sub BUT they make the bonuses so good its hard not to.

such joy i will have when they all fail.