Men in Dresses

[Shadowzanon]

I see it happening. The naysayers are fools if they think other very popular games do not already do this. Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out. Plus we do have a few dresses already. There are a kilt or 2 and skirts. The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

[Shioban]

If your argument is basically "not many men wear dresses in real life", well, last time I checked there weren't many cat people, monsters or people throwing fireballs around in real life either.

Yet again, missing the point.

There's a balance of "Realism vs. Fantasy". Varying races in fantasy settings is a normal occurance (Elves, Orcs, Beastmen).
Men in dresses isn't, even in an average fantasy setting now that I think about it.

You can't compare the two, that's absurd.

As much as I'd like a big male Roe in a pink frilly dress, I can't see this actually happening. Ever. People in this thread have already (patiently) explained why.

But sadly the "I'm being oppressed, don't you oppress me" will just get thrown in the faces of anyone who disagrees or provides any basic reasoning as to why. (Even if it's not an opinion that was posted)

I see it happening. The naysayers are fools if they think other very popular games do not already do this. Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out. Plus we do have a few dresses already. There are a kilt or 2 and skirts. The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

I already pointed out kilts and skirts in context are normal actually (even in real-life) and a Renaissance setting.
Men wearing "Corset Style Bodice Chemise Skirts" is not. The style of clothing the OP is suggestion is a WORLD apart from a kilt or a small skirt attached to the bottom of a body-piece.

Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out.

Nope, those are robes. What the OP is requesting is a completely different ball game here and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.
(As for the WoW gear go back and have another look, they're all robes to fit the low-poly design of the game which restricts gear design)

If however you can find a clearly female dress that has been fitted for a male character, I'll eat my hat. Okay?

The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

That's the warrior of light armour set based off the original warrior of light, I wouldn't call it a dress because of the slightly draping cloth.

, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

Calm down.

Some people pointed out the reason why the developers wouldn't add it, other simply expressed that they didn't want it.
They have JUST as much right to express that they don't want it, as much as you do in requesting it.

[Shadowzanon]

Derp.

In wow there are many crafted dresses including a wedding dress that both male and females can use, there are tons of them and nope they are not robes, kilts ect.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Categoryresses there is no gender lock for these dresses. No one complained about them and many have been around since 2004.

[Nuinn]

In wow there are many crafted dresses including a wedding dress that both male and females can use, there are tons of them and nope they are not robes, kilts ect.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Categoryresses there is no gender lock for these dresses. No one complained about them and many have been around since 2004.

Very aware of that but I don't really know what to say as there's tons of stuff that's been done in other games and MMOs which doesn't mean we'll get to see them in ARR.

As a side note: If devs were to give us clothes in general that aren't gender locked (Lightning/Snow outfits, Valentione etc.) and especially dresses, I'd appreciate if they were at the very least flattering to the male physique.

[Shadowzanon]

Very aware of that but I don't really know what to say as there's tons of stuff that's been done in other games and MMOs which doesn't mean we'll get to see them in ARR.

As a side note: If devs were to give us clothes in general that aren't gender locked (Lightning/Snow outfits, Valentione etc.) and especially dresses, I'd appreciate if they were at the very least flattering to the male physique.

I would agree. Now in wow nothing was funnier than watching a huge tauren pass by in a weddings dress. It was obviously allowed for fun and well in game people enjoyed them.

[Naunet]

Men wearing "Corset Style Bodice Chemise Skirts" is not. The style of clothing the OP is suggestion is a WORLD apart from a kilt or a small skirt attached to the bottom of a body-piece.

Male characters in WoW can wear the Lovely Dress, which is decidedly "feminine" in design.

[Shioban]

Male characters in WoW can wear the Lovely Dress, which is decidedly "feminine" in design.

I honestly don't recall being able to wear that for all the years I played, always thought it was a suit.
Colour me wrong on that I guess.



If you find any other examples, do let me know!
I was actually googling around to see if I could find any Asian MMO's that did this, no luck so far. (Which would be key to the argument here)



I still think that the evidence so far shows that they're very much on the brand of separating items through gender.
(Swimsuits, Guardian Corps/Bohemians, Yukata's) all of which were gender specific and locked items.

Which is why I very much diffuted when you said "I think they'll add it, you're totally wrong!"

I have a male miqo'te who requires a dress.

Make it happen, don't listen to the homophobic and transphobic bigots who can't stand things not fitting into their accepted social norms. I require a pretty dress for my miqo'te. (So that I can then dye it black and be a dark force of chaos and destruction)

Stop trying to make it out as a personal attack. Seriously...
Some people don't feel comfortable with seeing men in something thats clearly a womens dresses, this DOES NOT mean they're homophobic or transphobic.
It's extremely rude to say "Well you're just homo/trans-phobic". If it makes other people feel un-easy or un-comfortable then YOU as another human being someone who also expects mutual respect and equality should consider this factor. It's not all about YOU.

Stop trying to exacerbate this point.

Sadly social norms are what most developers will go for, it's not a popular opinion among the trans-gendered crowd I'm very sure, but I can see their stance on this being along the same as their stance on Gay Marriage in the game.

Naoki Yoshida himself said this; "This is a controversial subject, things like this have to be approached carefully as a company, the decision will come from the development team after we've discussed it enough."

[SpookyGhost]

Stop trying to make it out as a personal attack. Seriously...
Some people don't feel comfortable with seeing men in something thats clearly a womens dresses, this DOES NOT mean they're homophobic or transphobic.

It does, however, say that they're not only incredibly close minded but also very uncomfortable with their sexuality. They also think the world revolves around them and that people should conform to whatever their idea of a "man" and a "woman" is. A burly man with a beard in a dress would be perfectly fine to anyone who isn't insecure - that's their decision, that's how they feel comfortable. A lot of SE's decisions for FF14/FF11 were based on their core audience, the Japanese market - that's why, if marriage is implemented, we probably won't see gay marriage. That doesn't mean it's okay for them to do that or that Japanese customs are supposed to be completely okay with the Western world because "they're from a different place!!". While we won't see dresses for men (most likely) or gay marriage (most likely), that doesn't mean it's fine to critique people for dressing differently. Is that dress really affecting your life in any way? Is it doing ANYTHING more than making you uncomfortable because you're insecure about your sexuality? No, it's really not. Girls wear binders and dress in suits designed for men - is THAT not okay? If not, why not? How is it affecting you? What is it doing to YOU that makes you so uncomfortable?

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Stop trying to make it out as a personal attack. Seriously...
Some people don't feel comfortable with seeing men in something thats clearly a womens dresses, this DOES NOT mean they're homophobic or transphobic.
It's extremely rude to say "Well you're just homo/trans-phobic". If it makes other people feel un-easy or un-comfortable then YOU as another human being someone who also expects mutual respect and equality should consider this factor. It's not all about YOU.

Stop trying to exacerbate this point.

Sadly social norms are what most developers will go for, it's not a popular opinion among the trans-gendered crowd I'm very sure, but I can see their stance on this being along the same as their stance on Gay Marriage in the game.

Naoki Yoshida himself said this; "This is a controversial subject, things like this have to be approached carefully as a company, the decision will come from the development team after we've discussed it enough."

Sorry, but the only reason I see for anyone to be uncomfortable with men being in dresses is they have internalized transphobic/homophobic societal norms. There is literally NOTHING wrong with men wearing dresses or "women's clothes", just as there is NOTHING wrong with women wearing "men's clothes". Why do people not make a big deal about one but get up in arms about the other? Internalized bigotry. Whether you realize it or not, that's what it is. There is NO reason people should be uncomfortable with it unless they were raised in an oppressive and backwards cultural or societal environment which said "no, these things aren't natural and normal".

It's rude to say someone's a bigot? It's also rude to say "I feel uncomfortable with this and thus don't want to see it". You're being rude to a group of people either way, though honestly I don't feel bad about being "rude" to people with internalized bigotry. They certainly don't feel bad being rude to people just trying to express themselves how they see fit. If anything, THEY'RE the ones making it "all about them", as you tried to say.

[Mychael]

It's rude to say someone's a bigot? It's also rude to say "I feel uncomfortable with this and thus don't want to see it". You're being rude to a group of people either way, though honestly I don't feel bad about being "rude" to people with internalized bigotry. They certainly don't feel bad being rude to people just trying to express themselves how they see fit. If anything, THEY'RE the ones making it "all about them", as you tried to say.

If I were in drag, I wouldn't walk into the face of someone who's clearly uncomfortable with my dress and criticize their opinions. While it's true that they may be closed-minded or even a little insecure, that's more a product of their upbringing and cultural norms--hardly things in their sphere of influence. It's no more rude to say "I'm uncomfortable with XXX" than it is to be comfortable with it.

You're absolutely right that they have internalized prejudices and trans-/homophobic values. Again, unless you want to blame them for every life event that's shaped their personality--that's your right, I guess...

My point is, you're not helping the argument by preaching condescendingly to all of the anti-dress folks as if they were insensitive and/or clueless. They're not stating their opinions to offend you.