Observations on DPS in End Game

[skaterger]

snip

Back when I played Wow, someone in the raid would post dmg done/dps from recount into raid chat. After the raid, officers would also briefly analyze different parameters (dmg taken, number of times a particular skill is used etc) for boss fights and if someone wasn't performing up to expectations, they would pm them to have a chat about it. This is what I call constructive use of parsers. If SE can incorporate something like this into ffxiv I would be totally receptive of it as it would help fcs and statics so much for progression fights.

This is all well and good within the context of a grp of people playing together regularly but what if used in DF and PF which do you think would be the more likely scenario?

1) Point out to the newbie the inaccuracies in his rotation and help him overcome it
2) Humiliate him, kick him out of party or leave party?

My point being, if its a straight up dps check and who isn't pulling their weight, its not hard to tell at all. The threat meter, while not 100% accurate can be used as a rough gauge.

Now imagine this expended to the duty finder in CT where there are 24 players. People were already abusing the ready check and vote abandon system? Can you imagine the fiasco if a parser was introduced?

[mythicrose]

...which do you think would be the more likely scenario?

1) Point out to the newbie the inaccuracies in his rotation and help him overcome it
2) Humiliate him, kick him out of party or leave party?

Hmm...based on my own experiences over the last decade, I'll go with number 1. Nah...who am I kidding. Number two all the way.

[bokchoykn]

snip

I thought about what the game would be like if the game had a built-in parser, and I'm inclined to agree with you that the disadvantages would outweigh the benefits. Players would be more accountable and in turn play would improve, but at the same time, it would also facilitate toxic behavior like the stuff that you've mentioned. It would probably have a negative impact on casual players, creating an atmosphere of paranoia and toxicity.

Then I think about new/learning and unskilled tanks. Their performance is already constantly exposed to the rest of the group, just like a DD's would be if the game had a built-in parser. Except instead of low numbers, he also looks like a complete idiot when he screws up tanking. That's probably why tanks are so scarce. But I digress.

The OP was more directed at probably the upper 25% (guessing) of the game's players (in terms of skill, progression and intensity) who are actually doing end-game stuff that requires a higher standard of play.

If I was to implement an in-game parser in FFXIV, the data would be private and confidential to the specific player using it, with the option to share with teammates with the click of a button. If a teammate chooses to share with you, you can see his total damage dealt, how many of each skill he used, how many auto-attacks he landed, his critical hit rate, etc... just like you could see your own.

BTW: Threat meter is a bad way to show damage contribution. Quelling Strikes and Elusive Jump exist. Monks don't have any threat-management abilities. Plus, there are AoE situations and adds in every fight, while threat meter only shows the threat on each individual target. You can't tell who's carrying their weight on Ifrit EX nails using a threat meter.

[skaterger]

Trim

Ditto about the threat meter. I don't parse for every fight so its the only available real time approximation on who is pulling their weight or not. Its still useful for some fights though. Like you can see the threat meter on conflags to see which dps is slow to switch to conflag (if you are dying to fast conflags).

I'm curious though, if parsers are already being run in the background *hush hush*, then why the insistance it be made an in-game feature that all players have access to? It seems that this would cause more grief than anything else. If the point was to help the player improve, then having it run in game or in the background would make no difference. The information is still the same where you get it from.

Btw, thanks for keeping this discussion civil. And also, there seems to be a thread in GD about parsing too you might want to check it out.

[bokchoykn]

snip.

I don't think there is a huge problem with how things are now: Parsers are third-party, used by those who want to use them. I'm not necessarily advocating for an in-game parser to be implemented. If one was to be implemented or if the game allowed for custom UI mods, I would welcome it with open arms, but I don't think the issue is the absence of an in-game parser.

I think the major issue is that players are ignorant about DPS. The problem lies within the community and culture of MMO's where (outside of the most competitive and skilled players) maximizing damage output isn't considered important, parsers are considered poison, and there is no incentive to improve.

[Viridiana]

This is all well and good within the context of a grp of people playing together regularly but what if used in DF and PF which do you think would be the more likely scenario?

1) Point out to the newbie the inaccuracies in his rotation and help him overcome it
2) Humiliate him, kick him out of party or leave party?

My point being, if its a straight up dps check and who isn't pulling their weight, its not hard to tell at all. The threat meter, while not 100% accurate can be used as a rough gauge.

Now imagine this expended to the duty finder in CT where there are 24 players. People were already abusing the ready check and vote abandon system? Can you imagine the fiasco if a parser was introduced?

I can only really vouch for myself, in that I'd point out how to fix his rotation, probably a bit more bluntly than necessary but without calling names or anything. The people in my FC would likely do the same, and probably even be nicer about it. That said, the vast majority of the players are not people I can vouch for, and I know that an unfortunate number of them would do #2. On the other hand, #2 is harassment, which is a bannable offense, and I know that the GMs act on these things. I would almost be willing to deal with the stupid if it meant that we could clean up some of the more toxic members of the community. Especially if it means I can go to CT without being bombarded with childish infighting.