Observations on DPS in End Game

[bokchoykn]

This topic briefly came up in another thread but I think should be its own discussion.

The Importance of Good DPS

Every fight is a DPS race in some way, shape or form. I'm not just talking Enrage timers either. There are many benefits to having higher DPS output.

• Higher DPS means a shorter fight. A shorter fight equates to less stress on healers' MP pools. It also means the party is at a lower risk of wiping because they have fewer hazards to deal with. If a fight is shortened from 8 minutes to 7 minutes, you can reasonably assume that they are only 7/8ths as likely to fail to a wipe-causing accident.
  
  
• Higher DPS also allows for you to push/skip phases. For example, Circle bombs into 5-way Landslide is a relatively common cause of accidental death at the end of Titan EX's heart phase. Having the DPS capacity to break the heart before the Landslide, or better yet before the circle bombs ends the phase and reduces the risk of people dying before post-heart.
  
  
• Higher DPS increases the party's chance of recovering from an accidental death or d/c. If the group is capable of meeting the smaller DPS checks throughout the fight despite being down one DPS, the group won't automatically fold to losing a member and can survive until the dead DPS is rezzed or simply finish the fight with seven.

Basically, higher DPS reduces the margin of error for the party. While there are a few isolated exceptions where too much DPS can potentially be a bad thing, generally a group with excess DPS is much more likely to succeed than a group with barely enough DPS to beat the encounter. Increasing your DPS allows you to win in situations where you'd normally lose. It's really that simple.

My Observations on DPS in End Game

This may all seem obvious and needless to say for some of us, particularly the demographic of players at an above-average skill level and play this game with an above-average level of intensity. However, based on my experiences and interactions with the FFXIV community, including PF groups, pre-made groups, static groups, and even similar MMORPG's other than FFXIV, I've made a few observations about DPS and people's attitudes towards it...

1. Players generally don't care enough about DPS output and don't realize/acknowledge how important it is to a party's success.

I find that the overall mentality amongst many DDs is "as long as I'm alive and dealing some degree of damage, this is enough to say that I'm adequately doing my job". This fallacious concept of DPS exists at both a conscious and subconscious level. People will argue that "dead DDs deal zero DPS", which is very true, but shouldn't the goal be to deal as much damage in addition to staying alive? Some DPS classes are very complex and have very high skill-caps, but to many players, the process of dealing damage devolves to simply staying alive and pressing some buttons. The intracacies of their job are completely missed due to their lack of understanding of their own role. This mentality is a misconception and is a barrier for DDs to improve themselves.

Also, the overall mentality amongst tanks is "DPS is not my responsibility. I'm a tank, not a DD. My damage sucks anyway, so why bother?" In my opinion, regardless of whether you're a Tank/DD/Healer, your ultimate job is to improve your party's chance to succeed. And to that end, tanks should not treat their DPS output as a residual side-effect of trying to hold aggro, but instead they should treat it as a major responsibility in addition to their primary duties: aggro management, damage mitigation, and the proper positioning of enemies. Tank DPS is important. Unfortunately, the vast majority of tanks don't feel that way. They don't put forth the effort into maximizing DPS and they don't recognize it as one of the dynamics of their role. Likewise, this mentality is a misconception and is a barrier for Tanks to improve themselves.

To a much lesser extent you could say the same applies for healers as well, but the game's design somewhat limits healers' ability to contribute damage, especially in Coil where low accuracy hinders the usefulness of healer DPS, but mostly because dealing damage will almost always come as a direct compromise to their ability to heal (MP cost and/or casting time). In any case, situations do exist where healers DPS is viable and the benefit that outweighs the cost. Great healers are able to identify these situations and take advantage.

2. Many players don't know how to increase their own DPS output often because they're not even aware that their DPS is in need of improvement.

PARSERS! How long did you think we could talk about DPS without using that word? Parsers compile and organize statistical data from your combat log and the game's memory. Strictly within the context of measuring DPS output, it tells you how much damage each player is dealing and how often each attack is being used. Parsers are a means to evaluate, learn, improve and gauge their progress.

Its importance and usefulness for the purpose of evaluation and self-improvement cannot be understated. Behind all the pretty sprites, flashy graphics and cool animations is a vast game of mathematics. Mastery of this game depends on understanding and applying math, and none of this is possible without access to numerical data.

Here is the problem:

Parsers are illegal and many people avoid using them because of this. The people who DO use them must be discreet about it, which drastically limits how the parsers can be used as well as its exposure to the community. Even if they weren't illegal, parsers are still often taboo and frowned upon in the community. Many people perceive parsers to be a catalyst for toxic behavior, which isn't completely untrue, but it doesn't mean that they can't be used constructively and responsibly. Some people see parse results as way for players to flex their epeen and compete with one another, when they should be cooperating with each other, but fail to see the value in players having a DPS metric to evaluate themselves and each other.

As a result, only a small percentage of players actually use parsers. An even smaller percentage of players actually know how to use them properly and are able to interpret the data as something more than "I'm a better player than this guy, but not as good as that guy". For everyone else, they are deprived of a means to evaluate, learn, improve themselves, as well as the people around them.

Parsers and statistics can and should have a huge impact on end-game FFXIV and the way players can approach the game. Unfortunately, because of these obstacles, they don't. In the end, average players are perpetually trapped in their own mediocrity. Can you really blame them?

This leads to my next point...

3. People have no incentive to increase their own DPS output because players are rarely held accountable for their performance in this area.

Now, I just want to point out that some players don't care about being the best player they can be. Not everybody plays this game at the same level of intensity as we do. This is fine and I respect that.

However, the nature of this game creates a double-standard where tanks and healers are required to perform but DPS is not. If a tank sucks, he will fail to manage aggro or not position properly and the group will criticize him for it. If a healer sucks, people will die from lack of healing and the group will criticize him for it. If DPS sucks, nobody knows because they don't have or can't talk about the statistical data to show it. Even if you were allowed to talk about it, remember: parsers are generally frowned upon by the average player and you have a good chance being considered as an elitist and a toxic member of the community. The end result: DDs are exempt from the stardard of play that the Tanks and Healers are held to. Unlike Tanks and Healers whose inadequacies are obvious, when a DD is incompetent at his class, this fact is hidden from everyone including the DD himself.

How is this fair? Can you not see how this would affect the enjoyment of Tanks and Healers who are actually trying to learn their class? In both video games and in the real world people are MUCH MUCH MUCH more open and receptive to criticism if they know that everyone else is being held to the same standard and that constructive criticism is a two-way street.

Criticism is not spread evenly amongst all players. The weight is put on half of them. Wait, did I say "half"? It's actually, much less than half as evidenced by DPS queue times, probably because nobody wants to play a class where they can't learn and improve on the same terms as DPS. It's a matter of fact: The lack of incentive for DPS to improve affects the willingness for everyone else to improve.

Conclusion

I've written a lot of words. What is my point? What am I trying to get out of this? To be honest, I guess I didn't really have a point. I just wanted to share my views and observations and see what other people had to say. But, I guess if there were points to take away from this:

• DD's: try to improve yourselves. When a party is trying to kill a boss, a very large percentage of problems can be solved with slightly better DPS. The reason people can sell Titan EX runs and easily kill him with six people is because their DPS is better. Our sell team doesn't have perfect players. We occasionally die to dumb shit too, but our DPS is just so good that our margin of error is huge. Your DPS is very valuable but nobody will encourage you to improve it because the general public is ignorant. You gotta do it yourself.
  
  
• Tanks should be conscious of their DPS too. It's often the difference between a good tank and a great tank. Tanks who do max damage are super rare and super valuable to their teams.
  
  
• Leaders of FC's and statics: It's your responsibility to make sure your party is functioning like a well-oiled machine, right? Then put more focus on improving your party's DPS. Again, a very large percentage of problems can be solved with slightly better DPS. The mark of a good leader is that he/she demands a lot and gets a lot from his/her players. Set the bar high for DPS, provide the encouragement and help to get your DPS higher, and pat yourself on the back when bosses die cleaner and easier.
  
  
• Get a parser, guys! Even if you're not a DD. It will do wonders for your own improvement and understanding of the game. Who cares if it's against the terms of service? If you're paranoid about it, just don't talk about it in game. Otherwise, don't be a dick about it and you'll be fine.
  
  
• If you really don't want to get a parser, at least have an open mind about it. Someone telling someone else their DPS is low is no different than someone telling a tank he needs to hold aggro better or he's not tanking the boss in the right spot. This whole notion that parse results are nothing but toxic epeen-meters has got to go.
  
  
• Goddammit everyone, just learn to play better. One of the most polarizing behaviors of MMO players is their obsession with loot. All players tend to spend a lot of energy focusing on their gear, reseraching/discussing upgrades, and figuring out what's best-in-slot, and yet some can't be bothered to learn how to improve their technique and better understand their own class. Technical play is a greater limiting factor to your DPS output than the quality of your gear. Shame on you for foaming at the mouth over the tiniest statistical upgrade when you're only doing 60% of what you're capable of because you don't care enough about improving your technique. Get your priorities straight!

[Rein-Yagami]

A good well thought out arguement~

I just have a few problems with it~

in MOST dungeons and endgame content, if a dps is doing 70-80% of their potential damage the enemies will still die. A tank doing 70-80% of their potential in tanking will likely end up eating dirt and wiping the party.

As for parsers, first off they are illegal in this game~ second Ps3 players can't use them, so that line of "improvement" is out~

Telling people "L2PB!" because they aren't able to do 100% of what you think they're capable of is stupid~ any number of reasons could be holding them back. A disability that reduces their motorskills, a laggy connection so they're getting frequent hangtime on their commands or it's a new dungeon or method to them. All of these are legitimate reasons for not "pulling your weight" and besides, They've paid just as much to play this game as you all have~ Should they be excluded from endgame because they aren't "the elite of elites"?

[Alkimi]

in MOST dungeons and endgame content, if a dps is doing 70-80% of their potential damage the enemies will still die.

Now, maybe, but only because they all overgear the content. If they go into 2.2 on Leviathan Ex or Turn 6 with their i90 gear (probably equivalent to doing current coil in darklight) only doing 70% of their damage then they're simply not going to clear it.

[bokchoykn]

in MOST dungeons and endgame content, if a dps is doing 70-80% of their potential damage the enemies will still die. A tank doing 70-80% of their potential in tanking will likely end up eating dirt and wiping the party.

Again, dealing excess amounts DPS reduces your margin of error. 70-80% of damage potential is enough to kill anything in the game. Especially since most of us are overgeared for the content we're clearing. That's if everything else is going perfectly, which isn't always the case. Why do you think EX Titan groups fold when one person dies? Why do you think i90 parties can't beat Twintania without 5 DPS?

Anyway, how do you define "70-80% of potential in tanking?" 70-80% of threat generation? 70-80% of HP pool? 70-80% of damage output? Anyway, I don't understand what you mean by that, but whatever you meant by that, I can't see how it can be both relevant and correct.

As for parsers, first off they are illegal in this game~ second Ps3 players can't use them, so that line of "improvement" is out~

I agree on both counts. They are illegal. PS3 players can't use them. For those who can use them, they're pretty damn useful. For those who can't, sorry.

Telling people "L2PB!" because they aren't able to do 100% of what you think they're capable of is stupid~ any number of reasons could be holding them back. A disability that reduces their motorskills, a laggy connection so they're getting frequent hangtime on their commands or it's a new dungeon or method to them. All of these are legitimate reasons for not "pulling your weight" and besides, They've paid just as much to play this game as you all have~ Should they be excluded from endgame because they aren't "the elite of elites"?

Is it really stupid? A person with a disability, laggy connection, or lack of experience is NOT entitled to victory by virtue of his handicap. THAT is stupid. While these may be legitimate reasons to you for someone not pulling their weight, Titan EX does not give a flying fuck about your disability, laggy connection, or lack of experience. Landslides will still knock you off the platform. You still need to X damage in 10 minutes to kill him. You still have to heal the damage he puts out. The conditions of victory and defeat are set by the designers of and the boss fight. You either pass or fail. It's black and white. That's the way it should be.

Paying the same amount as someone else for a video game does not entitle you to the same level of progression as they have. That's preposterous. I can't believe you even brought that up.

[bokchoykn]

So if a Paladin doesn't use flash as a part of their aggro rotation, they will eat dirt and wipe the party. Gotcha.

[Rein-Yagami]

So if a Paladin doesn't use flash as a part of their aggro rotation, they will eat dirt and wipe the party. Gotcha.

Oh but if a drg doesn't use heavy thrust, or a blm use thundercloud procs that'll wipe the party?

I've seen tanks in endgame content that are constantly on the verge of losing aggro during bosses~ but we can't blame the tank if aggro is lost and that causes a wipe right? Poor tanks~ We'll blame the dps who were giving it 100% like you wanted~

[Bixby]

Oh but if a drg doesn't use heavy thrust, or a blm use thundercloud procs that'll wipe the party?

I've seen tanks in endgame content that are constantly on the verge of losing aggro during bosses~ but we can't blame the tank if aggro is lost and that causes a wipe right? Poor tanks~ We'll blame the dps who were giving it 100% like you wanted~

I'm trying to find the part in any of bokchoykn's posts where it says tanks or healers should be without blame.

If a tank can't hold threat, that's a very big problem. If they can't survive, that's a very big problem. If a healer can't keep people (who aren't screwing up) alive, that's a very big problem.

The difference is that those are all also very visible problems. The threat meter is right there. The tank's buffs are visible and everyone can see their HP. Everyone can see when a healer is or isn't casting, and can see HP bars drop and rise. You can tell when those two roles are performing at least well enough, even if you're not familiar with the jobs.

You can't tell with DPS without external tools. Unless you know the job(s) really well yourself and are watching them almost as much as your own stuff. I know MNK well enough to have a general idea of what buttons a MNK is pushing if I have time to pay attention. But I've honestly got no clue about the other DPS classes, and there's no way I've got time to keep an eye on all of them to see who's the weak link just from what's going on in the game. The threat meter kind of helps, but some classes have threat drops, and if they're split on different targets, it's not that useful. All you've really got is whether or not stuff is dying fast enough.

The nature of the game already holds tanks and healers accountable enough. Good players will always want to improve regardless of their role. But DPS just don't have nearly that level of visible accountability.

The stigma against accountability (for all roles) could use some weakening. It's just that that stigma already isn't nearly as strong when it comes to tanks or healers. You don't have to worry about being told how to improve in either of those roles; you screw up, you'll hear about it.

[Itseotle]

- Actually DRGs in general, they're almost all terrible

This is a sterotype that has lived long enough. Anyone can be bad. I see more bad BRDs than DRGs lately, but its all just opinion.

Oh but if a drg doesn't use heavy thrust, or a blm use thundercloud procs that'll wipe the party?

Yup. Won't kill those Conflags/Snakes/Dreadknights/Dreadnaughts/Knights/Gaols/Suparnas/Chiradas/Satins/Nails/ect fast enough without HT, resulting in wipe.

I really like the OPs post. It comes across as just a general nudge to do better, and he does have a point. But to the OP, that is the line, I believe, between casual and "not casual". A lot of people who have cleared the top tiers of content do perform the way you have described. This is a game that welcomes people who do only play at 70% efficiency, but those people cannot get themselves through the content, which imo is the dividing line. Just let people play the way they want to play. For those that do want to improve, this is a useful point of reading.

keep in mind that melees DPS get shafted by AoE circles and that Grease Lightning most of the time will be lost if a boss jumps and comes bak down. It can be preserve but u will be pushing the time on your grease lightning. and to get it back you have to slowly build it back. While its good if a MNK can work with that but im pretty sure alot cant.

This should not be used as a crutch. This sounds like your talking about Primals, and those fights are designed in a way that Monks (and any job) can clear them. If you are performing your job to the best of your ability, then it doesn't matter if you lose Greased Lightning. It is designed for you to do so, and that my friend is just part of what it means to truly optimize your DPS in those fights.

I still don't see how dps are not accountable for fights when Titan heart phase, ifrit ex nails, T4, T5 are all hard dps checks. If a raid wipes to any of the above mechanics, the fingers will be solely pointed to the dps. Maybe its not as obvious as a tank losing aggro or a healer not healing, but the collective dps has failed as a whole. And isn't there a saying like "you are only as good as your weakest member" or something like that.

This is entirely true, especially as more people start moving into Extreme mode primals (heck people still struggle with HM Titan). It is very easy to tell if the DPS are failing when you don't break Titan's Heart and everyones alive? That's the DPS to blame, and your right it might not be just one person which is why I feel the OP needs to add the following concept to his original post:

- Another responsibility of DPS is to coordinate with each other. This includes simple ideas like "who is using Limit Break and and what time?" to more complex ideas like cross-buffing for DPS increases. For example, as a BRD, should I be using Foe Requiem so the BLM can AoE harder, or Army's Paeon so the Warrior and Dragoon can AoE longer? Another relationship is Dragoon and Bard. As a DRG, is it more important to Disembowl the Bard's target, or focus on my own target? These concepts are more class-oriented but the general idea that you should coordinate with your fellow DPS is also very key to maximizing your class's potential, as well as your group's.

[Alkimi]

Basically people don't bother to research and optimise their rotations. I've seen all sorts of crap including:

- BLMs who spam Fire III > Transpose > DO nothing until full MP > Repeat (Quite a few of these actually)
- SMNs who let DoTs fall off for up to a minute at a time
- SMNs who don't use DoTs at all
- MNKs who just stay on one direction and don't switch between flank/rear at all. Might have worked somewhat in 2.0, not anymore.
- MNKs who constantly let GL fall off, even on bosses which stand still the entire fight
- A DRG who used nothing but Full Thrust over and over
- Actually DRGs in general, they're almost all terrible
- Probably loads more I can't recall

A lot of these people have managed to scrape through some of the endgame content just by overgearing it and being carried by others, but I get the feeling they're in for a grim couple of months wiping horribly to Twintania (even with the echo buff) trying to even get to try Turn 6 (which they can't overgear).

[Fendred]

Basically people don't bother to research and optimise their rotations.

I recall trying to research my class on the internet and I realized that there were a lot of conflicting opinions on how to optimize one's dps as well as out of date documents. It isn't like trying to research a rotation for World of Warcraft where it was very easy to find a good guide simply because of the game's massive popularity. MMOs aren't quite like that anymore.

They should really not be trying to create rotations in this day and age. I'm all for having a variety of abilities that do different things, but the dps choices should be very obvious.