People are bad at this game

[Wizhard]

If I had a magic wand that could change MMO game design I would make better "checks" throughout the game, and more of them. Maybe to unlock Titan HM you should have to avoid plumes, landslides, and bombs for several rounds...

Secret World actually had a single-player fight required to access the hardest difficulty of the dungeons. It was called the Gatekeeper and there were 3 different versions of him, dps, heal and tank, complete with dummy npc party members standing in fire for healers and a dps that runs into conal aoe for tanks. Dps had to kite oneshot bomb adds through narrow safe zones between aoes while dpsing and dispelling his buffs.
If i remember correctly there were a lot of tears about him...

[Vladislav]

Secret World actually had a single-player fight required to access the hardest difficulty of the dungeons. It was called the Gatekeeper and there were 3 different versions of him, dps, heal and tank, complete with dummy npc party members standing in fire for healers and a dps that runs into conal aoe for tanks. Dps had to kite oneshot bomb adds through narrow safe zones between aoes while dpsing and dispelling his buffs.
If i remember correctly there were a lot of tears about him...

I'd like 90% of content better be like this , other 10% are party 4~8 w/e

[ColorOfSakura]

Snip

Uh...did you read my post?

The DPSes were the problem in our fight, and it wasn't even that they were *bad* as a whole (they were at least smart enough to move out of AoEs and could down things decently fast.) They just didn't output the required damage to complete the final boss. I didn't say "LOL IT WAS THE DPS's FAULT". I said that they were at low iLvl gear and were having trouble burning down the adds in the Halicarnassus fight because they were. Halicarnassus is basically a floating DPS check.

Also, who blames the DPS all the time? Normally its the healers and tanks that get railed on for being "LOL SO BAD", the DPS is usually ignored because as long as they aren't eating every AoE known to man, its not generally apparent if they're not doing their class well unless they're failing DPS checks.

The Tank and I performed fine. I kept everyone healed up, used my procs when they came up and were viable, I helped with DPS when need be (so long as it didn't put my MP in a danger zone), used Regen and AoE heals when/if needed, and popped my cooldowns. Tank pulled and kept enemies held throughout the dungeon, moved Halicarnassus to where she needed to be to grab the next set of adds, popped cooldowns when necessary, etc.

So yeah, its possible that rather than the iLvl being too low to complete, the Tank and I just got stuck with bad DPSes (or a single bad DPS.) I don't know if that was exactly the case, but they weren't able to output the damage to beat her DPS check, so.

Still, considering I've heard a lot (and I mean a *lot*) of talk saying HM Hard should be pulled up in iLvl, I figured its not an isolated incident of just 'crappy players having a bad time.'

[Rein-Yagami]

Yup, where as I've experienced many a good HM HM run with low iLvl players. First run I ever did was DF'ed~ Everyone(myself included) didn't even breach iLvl 55 and were all running for the first time.

We wiped a grand total of.......twice~ both times to healer death on Blood Rain~

You're mistaking "Skilled players" with "I got the highest iLvl!"

I will forever choose to take a lower iLvl player that's skilled over an iLvl90 that is just facepalmingly awful.

iLvl requirements are fine the way they are. Want "sufficently" geared people for your run? Use the damn PF and set the requirement to 90 if you feel like it~

[SarcasmMisser]

Yup!

And the reason is this: Players are very rarely held accountable for their DPS.

The mentality among players is that as long as DPS is staying alive and dealing some degree of damage, this is enough to say that they are adequately doing their job. That's what they think.

You see Titan EX groups in PF all the time that advertise: "i85, 3 Strikes and You're Out!" Yet, somehow doing merely 150 DPS is not a strike?

The truth is: Your chances at beating Titan EX are actually better with high-DPS accident prone players than low-DPS dodging masters. The stars can align for the accident prone players to put together one perfect attempt where 3 of them live. Meanwhile, low-DPS can't miraculously do high DPS and meet the DPS requirements.

But... DDs aren't held accountable for low DPS. Why?

Parsers are the most important tool to a DD's performance. They are a means to learn, improve and gauge their progress. However, only a small percentage of players actually use Parsers.

Parsers are illegal, deterring people from using them. The people who DO use them must be discreet about it. If the party leader does not use a parser, he is never aware of who's doing shit damage and can't make the necessary replacements. Nobody is gonna tell him who's doing shit DPS, because they don't want to get banned.

Even if they weren't illegal, Parsers are often taboo and frowned upon in the community. Many people perceive parsers to be a catalyst for toxic behavior, which isn't completely untrue. They see parse results as unimportant and just a way to flex their epeen. They don't see the value in players having a DPS metric to evaluate themselves and each other.

It's obvious when a Tank isn't generating enough enmity (aggro is everywhere) or when a Healer isn't doing enough healing (people are dying). Without parsers, it's impossible to tell that a DD sucks at their job because nobody knows that he sucks. His responsibility is shared with three other DDs. All you know is that the collective DPS sucks, but nobody knows which single DD sucks. He doesn't even know he sucks. How is he supposed to improve if he doesn't know that he sucks?

That's why there is such a high variance between the quality of DD's in this game. So many DD's doing only 50-70% of their capacity and they have no idea how much more their character is capable of. That's why groups struggle with Turn 4 in i80+ gear, when many others were beating Turn 4 in a mixture of DL+AK. That's why players have to one-tank Twintania or else they won't meet the DPS requirements.

DDs generally suck at this game and they lack both the means and incentive to improve, because Parsers are illegal and people who use them are the exception, not the norm.

You could copy/paste this amazing post in threads about other fun topics like "Why no one wants to play tanks".

Also for what it's worth, as soon as those people join a group that is at least approaching serious it is judgment day for their terrible DPS. It cannot be hidden from players worth a damn. The problem is that the game itself is designed and openly advertises ways to avoid this through dual-paths to end-game gear. They made the sad mistake of thinking that casual = unskilled. Casual should be about time investment not difficulty.

[ChaoticDarkGriever]

I think that those who have PCs can parse their own performance without difficulty. The bitching and moaning will come from those that have a PS3 and PS3. If SE decides to put in a built-in parser in the game, then I will be all for it. I'm sure all of 'shitty' DPSers surely need it anyway. Until that happens, I think parsers will remain illegal. A shame really.

[Empressia]

Illegal or not, parsers are extremely useful for automatic blacklisting (without harassing the subject) nubs who only want the famous "SHUT UP AND CARRY ME ALREADY IM UR KING PEASANTS" attitude. Especially weeding out those DPS scrubs who got sub par dps BELOW the FREAKIN tank!

The only way parsers can become constructive critism tool, is if parsers can be set very specific like WoW's dps meter addons in which it can :
1.Show each player used skills (and therefore their rotation) personally or on specific X target by X amount of healing / damage with % showed
2.Show WHO and how many damage done by X skill against a specific target (useful for who the hell kill spiny plume when garuda not flying up yet)

until then, its only legal inside ur static runs eh?

[Viridiana]

2.Show WHO and how many damage done by X skill against a specific target (useful for who the hell kill spiny plume when garuda not flying up yet)

Of course, for that you also need the game to distinguish multiple instances of the same mob. It does you no good currently to look at damage done to Spiny (to continue your example) if it's the third time Spiny has been up in a given fight, because there's nothing at present to distinguish the first from the second from the (failed) third.