This thread is about butts.

[Lurkios]

So what are you saying? We shouldn't call them out on this unappealing decision because the developer is always right and never does anything wrong? We shouldn't demand better character models even though we had them in 1.0 already? Even though most equipment is STILL fitted for 1.0 bodies?

Following "So what are you saying?" with questions regarding fantastical opinions almost entirely irrelevant to the quoted post does not actually make those the opinions of the poster.

[Shioban]

Look, whatever, nobody cares, all of this is moot point.

Yet threads keep cropping up for it.

It's just not going to happen. And if it does, we're talking seasons from now, if even that.

Wrong. It's a completle possibility that it could happen, no-one is expecting to log in next week to a "Pancake > Watermellon" slider.

If you'd read my post I actually mentioned that if this were to be done it'd be a very low priority (And If I didn't mention it or didn't make it clear enough)
This is a VERY low priority, but still someting people care about just becauase YOU personally don't care/mind doesn't mean others think the same.

Uhh. The only reason i'm even still bothering with this topic is because of the amount of people who blindly throw around words like "SIMPLE FIX", trying to imply laziness to every issue Square doesn't hold in equal priority to their own. I'm just trying to stop the spreading of ignorance, which is a personal pet-peeve of mine.

In this case there is a potential "simple fix" hence why my "lolsemanticsihatereading" post you so easily dismissed explained.

At the end of the day, i mean....I really don't care.

Then why respond?

i'd much rather you guys petition square to reimplement the use of dynamic animation to the models, since that would provide a much more significant increase in quality to pretty much everyone if they were able to pull it off.

You're confusing departments.

A lead animator isn't going to even look more than once at a "Fix butts for 2.3" on the priority list, it's almost negligible to them.
This is a problem for a different department.

There are various teams split into priorities as Yoshi-P explained, but also in general games development.

Something along the lines of;
1# Immediate Fixes/Hotfixes/Critical Errors
2# Patch 2.2 - Major Content Production
#2-3 Post 2.3 minor changes
#3 Patch 2.3 Major Content Production
#4 Expansion Content
#5 Future content post expansion

Each department would either be split or sectioned off or completley focusing on one of these levels, claiming that "Fixing the buttocks" would affect a lead animator is ridiculous, sorry but it is.

But by all means, do not let me poop on your parade.

A little late for that, you already did. But I can guarantee you people will still want it.



TL;DR

Every request is considered, especially ones that have been rejected yet still garner a large amount of attention/response.
You are not a special snowflakes, and neither is anyone else for that matter.
There IS a simple fix (there are more complex ones too)
Animation has nothing to do with Butts.
If you didn't care you wouldn't have responded.

[Condottiero]

Best thread ever.

[Knives]

You are attempting to present your personal opinion concerning what Miqo'te proportions should be, which you admittedly share with many others, as a standard to govern SE's aesthetic choices - which it is not.

SE did not reduce the models for aesthetic reasons. They changed the models to what we have now to ease the process of remaking all the leg gear from 1.0 for the new system in 2.0 because they were on a tight schedule. They standardized the lower body for all races. We aren't trying to make our opinion the standard, we are urging the devs to rebuild the models to what they were originally, before 2.0, now that the game is up and running. The proportions now aren't right for humans or miqo'te, even by SE's aesthetic standard. It's a Band-Aid for a different problem.

tldr: The models we have now are not in line with miqo'te's actual concept, it's a reduced model to make the conversion of gear to 2.0 faster across all races.

[Shioban]

we are urging the devs to rebuild the models to what they were originally,

Thankfully they don't have to be rebuilt, as there are many ways around it, but bear in mind what I'm suggesting is something for a future consideration.
Not just yourself but anyone else responding, please understand this is a consideration/suggestion for a solution, NOT a demand.

There's a procedure known a mesh deformer (which sadly when you google it brings up nothing but Second Life now-a-days) as they seem to have added a Parametric Deformer of sorts however they seem to be using it from what I've seen in the exact same way I'm suggesting from what I've read so it's worth having a quick google for.

Actually this video I found pretty much explains what a mesh deformer does, this seems to be an early version of whatever it was they were making though;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoOywmSKG2k#t=75

If you didn't want to watch that, simply when they increased the "proportions" of the body, the mesh deformed to fit (albeit slightly buggy/experimental code that they're using).

A mesh deformer is a set area on a skeleton fore example; The Waist/Pelvic area based on the weighted area, which allows you to set a parameter of lets say -0.25cm within a certain range of the original location on the overall 3D mesh.

You "paint" onto a 3D model where you want each skeletal joint to influence the 3D model for animating (see below for an example), so in the case of the waist area you can have a parameter that the weights on the back of the model extrude slightly creating the "butt shape" whilst extruding the topology of the other meshes, or or vice-versa "push" the butt back in when it's not needed to be extruded.



In laymans terms, using what you already have you can have it set so the butt actually "pushes" things away, this deformer the development team actually already have in the game so if the time were taken and it proved that it wasn't a resource hog and most importantly they had the time to waste on it, this would be ONE solution out of many.

You would be no means have to go back and adjust /every/ single model, that would be a horrendous task, I would never want them to have to do that as the time required to do so would be phenomenal.

[Lurkios]

tldr: The models we have now are not in line with miqo'te's actual concept, it's a reduced model to make the conversion of gear to 2.0 faster across all races.

Citation needed. (Disappointing if that is indeed the case, though it doesn't change the fact that I'm rather pleased with the status quo.)

[AmyNeudaiz]

Citation needed. (Disappointing if that is indeed the case, though it doesn't change the fact that I'm rather pleased with the status quo.)

Yes, ignore all valid points against your posts and pick out something because there was no easily found citation. You are great at debating 10/10

[Lurkios]

Yes, ignore all valid points against your posts and pick out something because there was no easily found citation. You are great at debating 10/10

Version 1.0 was accidently launched with a bugged Miqo'te model that used the human bottom half when not in smallclothes. The current model is what was intended.

I can't really back that up, just take my word for it.

Don't try and compare them either, if you have screenshots. Some kind of aspect ratio change between 1.0 and 2.0 or something like that... No proof on that one either. Word's gold though.

You get the point.

(Did you not get the part where I conceded the point, granted there was any truth to the statement? It was right before I said I liked the existing model regardless. I know two sentences is a lot to take in at once..., and one even had a comma which I'll admit was borderline cheating on my part - but bear with me here.)

[AmyNeudaiz]

Version 1.0 was accidently launched with a bugged Miqo'te model that used the human bottom half when not in smallclothes. The current model is what was intended.

I can't really back that up, just take my word for it.

Don't try and compare them either, if you have screenshots. Some kind of aspect ratio change between 1.0 and 2.0 or something like that... No proof on that one either. Word's gold though.

You get the point.

Took me under 1 minute. THERE YOU GO

Here is the translation

Hello,
Lead designer Takeo Suzuki here.

We understand that you all care deeply for the detail and shape of your characters, and while the development team is really happy about this, we would like to keep the specifications for character’s butts as they are.

I’d like to explain a bit about why we changed the shape of character model’s butts. It all began when Yoshi-P and the character team sat down and reconsidered what should be prioritized for players when we moved from 1.0 to A Realm Reborn.

Based on this discussion it was decided to place emphasis on the below:
• New races (male Miqo’te, female Highlanders, and female Roegadyn.)
• Increase the amount of content and the amount of reward items (equipment and weapons)
(We want to make a team that can create more than four times the amount of rewards compared to what there was originally.)

As a result of thinking about what could be done to fulfill the above objectives all while converting everything over and optimizing all the data by completely remaking the graphics engine, we decided to reduce the cost by simplifying items that were too complex when making them. One aspect of this was the graphical display of waist equipment.

I deeply apologize for those of you who were really partial to what Miqo’tes looked like in 1.0, but this decision was made so we could relaunch with new races and a lot of new equipment. We will be implementing a wide variety of really cool looking equipment moving forward, and we appreciate your understanding on this.

If you look at this thread there are posts showing examples of the change. If you look at the previous thread this came from (which is locked now) you will find more examples.

EDIT: I am arguing the point that you even argue the validity of this. It's astounding. It's like a person walking into a bar with blood, broken glass, and broken tables everywhere saying "Where's proof there was a fight here?"
On top of that you edit your post to insult me? Wow.

[Lurkios]

[snip]

Fair enough.

What are you even trying to argue at this point?

If you'd refer back to the OP, and the ~13 pages of conversation since - my arguement is now and has been since the beginning that I rather like Miqo'te butts the way they are and would prefer not to see them changed. I'm putting forth my opinion, which, unless I'm grossly mistaken, was more or less the point of the thread.