Instanced Raids Unveiled!

[Rentahamster]

Your forgetting one thing. The R30 gear and R30 dungeon are not ment for players who have already gottn to R50.

I'm not forgetting that at all. People who have a rank 50 class also probably have multiple lower-rank classes as well. It would be all too easy for them to twink their lower rank classes using their high rank class to farm raid gear.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

I'm not forgetting that at all. People who have a rank 50 class also probably have multiple lower-rank classes as well. It would be all too easy for them to twink their lower rank classes using their high rank class to farm raid gear.

And so what? Why is this a problem specifically for you? Who cares how decked out my lvl 30 THM is when my main focus in my lvl 50 PGL? I don't get how this breaks the game?

[Rentahamster]

And so what? Why is this a problem specifically for you? Who cares how decked out my lvl 30 THM is when my main focus in my lvl 50 PGL? I don't get how this breaks the game?

#1 - because you screw over all the crafters who are making normal-tier rank 30 gear. If all I have to do to get the best rank 30 gear is to steamroll a dungeon with my rank 50 class, there is no reason at all for me to buy gear from a crafter. This is bad for the economy.

#2 - because it ruins the perceived value of raid gear that it was actually something that players "earned". If you had to complete a dungeon at rank 30 to get rank 30 raid gear, you must have put in a lot of effort, and your rewards are well deserved. If you just steamroll a rank 30 dungeon at rank 50, you didn't put in any effort at all, and your good rewards will have been gotten undeservedly.

[TheVedis]

#1 - because you screw over all the crafters who are making normal-tier rank 30 gear. If all I have to do to get the best rank 30 gear is to steamroll a dungeon with my rank 50 class, there is no reason at all for me to buy gear from a crafter. This is bad for the economy.

#2 - because it ruins the perceived value of raid gear that it was actually something that players "earned". If you had to complete a dungeon at rank 30 to get rank 30 raid gear, you must have put in a lot of effort, and your rewards are well deserved. If you just steamroll a rank 30 dungeon at rank 50, you didn't put in any effort at all, and your good rewards will have been gotten undeservedly.

1) im mainly a crafter, 3 50 crafts about to be 4, i wont feel screwed over in the slightest

2) its not endgame gear, who cares how you earned it, people buy gear too, that isnt very earned now is it, lets punish all them by making all gear non sellable so everyone has to earn it too

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

#1 - because you screw over all the crafters who are making normal-tier rank 30 gear. If all I have to do to get the best rank 30 gear is to steamroll a dungeon with my rank 50 class, there is no reason at all for me to buy gear from a crafter. This is bad for the economy.

#2 - because it ruins the perceived value of raid gear that it was actually something that players "earned". If you had to complete a dungeon at rank 30 to get rank 30 raid gear, you must have put in a lot of effort, and your rewards are well deserved. If you just steamroll a rank 30 dungeon at rank 50, you didn't put in any effort at all, and your good rewards will have been gotten undeservedly.

#1 is a moot point when the gear is all unique and untradeable as it is.

#2 I put my effort in to GET to r50. I shouldn't be FORCED to get a challenge at r30, I should get a challenge at r50. Running anything below lv 50 content is not using my skills to their maximum efficiency, which, to me, is not a challenge at all.

While you are showing off your capped r30 raid gear, I'll don my r50 gear and we can see who gets more looks.

[Reaux]

#1 is a moot point when the gear is all unique and untradeable as it is.

#2 I put my effort in to GET to r50. I shouldn't be FORCED to get a challenge at r30, I should get a challenge at r50. Running anything below lv 50 content is not using my skills to their maximum efficiency, which, to me, is not a challenge at all.

While you are showing off your capped r30 raid gear, I'll don my r50 gear and we can see who gets more looks.

You're missing the point completely. You don't have to do the dungeon at all, ever. If your focus is a 50 job then do the 50 dungeon. If you have a job at 30 you are leveling then do the 30 dungeon. Why is this so difficult to understand?

He will show off his level 30 gear on his level 30 job, much like the 50-60 AF gear or the RSE or JSE gear in FFXI. You showed it off and used it as an accomplishment for that specific level range. Once you got higher or better gear, like relic, you used that as you're new show of accomplishment.

You are not being forced into anything because the dungeon is optional. If you choose to do the optional dungeon then you must abide by the rules for that battle. Much like certain bosses are resistant to certain spells...nobody ever considers that as "forced" into playing a specific style, it just is part of that one segment.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

You're missing the point completely. You don't have to do the dungeon at all, ever. If your focus is a 50 job then do the 50 dungeon. If you have a job at 30 you are leveling then do the 30 dungeon. Why is this so difficult to understand?

He will show off his level 30 gear on his level 30 job, much like the 50-60 AF gear or the RSE or JSE gear in FFXI. You showed it off and used it as an accomplishment for that specific level range. Once you got higher or better gear, like relic, you used that as you're new show of accomplishment.

You are not being forced into anything because the dungeon is optional. If you choose to do the optional dungeon then you must abide by the rules for that battle. Much like certain bosses are resistant to certain spells...nobody ever considers that as "forced" into playing a specific style, it just is part of that one segment.

Likewise, no one is making any of you run through the dungeon as a r50. So how is your argument any better than mine?

[Rentahamster]

#1 is a moot point when the gear is all unique and untradeable as it is.

You still don't get it. It's not a moot point.

Crafter Bob makes a rank 30 sword and wants to sell it.

Scenario with rank cap: I buy the sword from Bob for now because I need a new weapon in the short term. Using Bob's sword, I have an easier time completing the dungeon content in the hopes of finding a rank 30 "uber sword". Bob earns a living as a crafter, and I participate in the economy to further my battle class needs.


Scenario without a rank cap: I see Bob has a sword for sale but I don't care in the least because I'll just steamroll the rank 30 dungeon with my rank 50 class over and over until I get the rank 30 "uber sword" drop. Bob's worth as a crafter is diminished, and neither of us participate in the economy, diminishing it as well.

#2 I put my effort in to GET to r50. I shouldn't be FORCED to get a challenge at r30, I should get a challenge at r50. Running anything below lv 50 content is not using my skills to their maximum efficiency, which, to me, is not a challenge at all.

While you are showing off your capped r30 raid gear, I'll don my r50 gear and we can see who gets more looks.

Why is your rank 50 raid gear so valuable and so prestigious? It's because it was hard to get and you had to earn it. If rank 30 gear was hard to get as well, it would also carry a feeling of worth and prestige.

This isn't about making rank 30 raid gear more valuable than rank 50 raid gear. This is about maintaining a sense of perceived value for ALL items, regardless of rank.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

You still don't get it. It's not a moot point.

Crafter Bob makes a rank 30 sword and wants to sell it.

Scenario with rank cap: I buy the sword from Bob for now because I need a new weapon in the short term. Using Bob's sword, I have an easier time completing the dungeon content in the hopes of finding a rank 30 "uber sword". Bob earns a living as a crafter, and I participate in the economy to further my battle class needs.


Scenario without a rank cap: I see Bob has a sword for sale but I don't care in the least because I'll just steamroll the rank 30 dungeon with my rank 50 class over and over until I get the rank 30 "uber sword" drop. Bob's worth as a crafter is diminished, and neither of us participate in the economy, diminishing it as well.



Why is your rank 50 raid gear so valuable and so prestigious? It's because it was hard to get and you had to earn it. If rank 30 gear was hard to get as well, it would also carry a feeling of worth and prestige.

This isn't about making rank 30 raid gear more valuable than rank 50 raid gear. This is about maintaining a sense of perceived value for ALL items, regardless of rank.

What you want is for everyone to agree with your OPINION. It's not going to happen.

[Rentahamster]

What you want is for everyone to agree with your OPINION. It's not going to happen.

This isn't opinion, it's the laws of economics and the realities of scarce resource management and how it correlates to perceived value.

Anyway, we should probably discuss this topic in the other thread and not this one.