Instanced Raids Unveiled!

[Lerris]

Ya, that and I'm extremely skeptical of anyone claiming that this content will only be possible to complete with the maximum number of possible entrants. It's never happened in FFXI or FFXIV, to date. That means that either good players in groups of 8 smash the dungeon, or bad players in groups of 8 won't have a chance. We'll see, I suppose!

You need to simultaneously trigger 8 pressure plates to open a door...
Cheap, but I've seen it done elsewhere to prevent low-manning.

I do think making the minimum/maximum number of entrants the same is a mistake ( and hope that more than 4 can enter the lower-level dungeon)

[Malakhim]

This. I think it's a big mistake to make the requirement to enter a full party. First off one of my favorite things to do is low man stuff in FF. That's out of the window. Second, people are going to get left behind a lot. Like quoted above, a ls of 15, only 8 can go. One of my favorite things about XI was that you could do stuff in a huge alliance where rarely people get left behind (or you could swap them in if you did), or low man it. Not shaping up to be the same story here in XIV.

A minimum requirement of 4-6, with the difficulty being pretty extreme would be a good balance here. Sure you can enter with a lower number but good luck completing it. This min/max 8 crap is going to suck.

This isn't a burn, so don't take it as one, but you are aware that these are just the first dungeons being released, and it should stand to think that they'll probably create higher rank 4-member group dungeons following feedback upon release of the first few.

[Airlea]

So, am I missing something here? I think someone brought this up before, but a linkshell with something like 15 available players will only service 8, while the remaining 7 are out of luck (or have to find the aforementioned random dude).

Twas lil' ol' me. Glad that caught a few people's attention. Another issue involved with this is loot distribution (and the fail system we have). Say you have 6 people and have to pick up 2 random players. That's 2 people that may ignore any agreements and lootwhore/steal items. They may end up deciding that they just want to wipe you for the fun of watching you fail. There's a lot of people that get a kick out of doing stuff like this.

[Raikki]

Removing the capability to lowman the 8man dungeon means you need to keep enough active members in your shell to always have 8 on when you want to go. What's the problem with that, you ask? It means more often than not more than 8 people will be on and wanting to go and you'll have to make people sit out. Telling people to sit on the bench wasn't fun in WoW and it won't be fun in FF14.

[Focant]

So I'm a bit confused by the outrage over there being no level cap on the mid-level dungeon. What exactly about that is bad? I mean if you want the challenge and want to have fun with it, go in as a properly ranked class. If not then... so what? If you want to steamroll the content then so be it, that was your decision. If it's about others doing it then what is it about others doing something the way they want to that bothers you all? It can't possibly be the items that drop, can it? Certainly people obtaining mid-level items wouldn't be the main motivation for the outcry. I mean it's not like someone obtaining the armor by easier means somehow cheapens its usefulness to you, and it's not like they're obtaining end-game gear that will somehow forever place them above you. At this point all I can imagine is that it comes down to flaunting achievements and saying "look at my awesome gear," at which point I just have to say sorry but that's not a good reason to change this in my opinion. And really, it's mid-level stuff. That's nothing to be outraged over.

I think that a lot of this is due to the content being the first in the game. Down the road when we have many more dungeons and things to do this will probably be a non-issue.

Also I believe Bayohne pointed out in this line here,

With the release of patch 1.18 we will monitor the comments and feedback from the community and re-evaluate as necessary and implement variations as needed.

That party size requirements and such aren't forever fixed. Just wait and see how things pan out and if you don't like it? Fine, demand change. For now I suggest we chill a bit.

[Val_Rhys]

So I'm a bit confused by the outrage over there being no level cap on the mid-level dungeon. What exactly about that is bad? ...

I agree people *may* be over-reacting here, in that if it turns out as you suggested, people will just have to deal with the fact that it's not the content a lot of people were after. That said, Square needs to realize they don't have too much good will from the player base left (if any at all).

My concern is this (admittedly I'm not that passionate about it): If I try the content with a rank 25 class. Very quickly, I hit rank 26, and then 27, and so on. Very quickly the dungeon becomes easy (assuming it's challenging at 25). So I think the overall concern is that this patch will essentially add 1 dungeon people actually care about, and the second dungeon will be something a lot of people crash through a few times to see what it's like but move on quickly because it's too easy.

Of course, if FFXIV had 20 dungeons, I think people would expect this type of content. Or at least something similar to it. So I personally don't have a huge problem with the uncapped r25 dungeon, I'm just not excited for it.

As an aside, I think people saying things like "just run it at r30 if you want a challenge" is a bit disingenuous. It's not easy to find people around a particular level. Soon enough, people at 32, and 34, say they'll come and eventually the person organizing the raid gives in and takes them. And the dungeon becomes a lot easier. Of course, that's the human side of all this and someone holding firm *can* hold off for nobody over r30. But I think that's more difficult than simply saying it.

[Focant]

I agree people *may* be over-reacting here, in that if it turns out as you suggested, people will just have to deal with the fact that it's not the content a lot of people were after. That said, Square needs to realize they don't have too much good will from the player base left (if any at all).

My concern is this (admittedly I'm not that passionate about it): If I try the content with a rank 25 class. Very quickly, I hit rank 26, and then 27, and so on. Very quickly the dungeon becomes easy (assuming it's challenging at 25). So I think the overall concern is that this patch will essentially add 1 dungeon people actually care about, and the second dungeon will be something a lot of people crash through a few times to see what it's like but move on quickly because it's too easy.

Of course, if FFXIV had 20 dungeons, I think people would expect this type of content. Or at least something similar to it. So I personally don't have a huge problem with the uncapped r25 dungeon, I'm just not excited for it.

As an aside, I think people saying things like "just run it at r30 if you want a challenge" is a bit disingenuous. It's not easy to find people around a particular level. Soon enough, people at 32, and 34, say they'll come and eventually the person organizing the raid gives in and takes them. And the dungeon becomes a lot easier. Of course, that's the human side of all this and someone holding firm *can* hold off for nobody over r30. But I think that's more difficult than simply saying it.

Well I suppose I understand what you're saying but I think it's far too early to be coming to conclusions like that. For one we have no idea how long the dungeons are, how much sp they give, or, really, anything about them at all aside from entry requirements.

Also I think content like this would benefit greatly from an improved party search mechanic. There aren't really that few people in the proper rank range, it's just not easy to find them walking down the street. Again though, we need to just wait and see. As it is we're basically arguing which way the wind is blowing on the other side of the world.

[Val_Rhys]

Well I suppose I understand what you're saying but I think it's far too early to be coming to conclusions like that. For one we have no idea how long the dungeons are, how much sp they give, or, really, anything about them at all aside from entry requirements.

Also I think content like this would benefit greatly from an improved party search mechanic. There aren't really that few people in the proper rank range, it's just not easy to find them walking down the street. Again though, we need to just wait and see. As it is we're basically arguing which way the wind is blowing on the other side of the world.

Oh I agree with that. I think people do have a bit of a right to be skeptical and questioning before we accept terrible content because this game, frankly, can't afford that anymore.

The only reason I checked this thread out though was the r50 dungeon 8 player requirement. That is something that really bothers me.

[Xenor]

That party size requirements and such aren't forever fixed. Just wait and see how things pan out and if you don't like it? Fine, demand change. For now I suggest we chill a bit.

No?

This is exactly the problem. We should have been demanding change months ago. Not now or after the content is added. This needs to be demanded now. Nothing will make people quit a game faster than not being able to do content because they don't have enough members due to requirements like that.

[Focant]

No?

This is exactly the problem. We should have been demanding change months ago. Not now or after the content is added. This needs to be demanded now. Nothing will make people quit a game faster than not being able to do content because they don't have enough members due to requirements like that.

What happened to making informed decisions? How can you demand change for something you know nothing about? Isn't experience and familiarity valued over theory and assumptions? Seriously, wait to experience it. See if it's really as bad as you say, and THEN change it. Why change something because you "think" it'll be bad but have no real reason to assume such?

It's fine to be worried and skeptical and to discuss it as such, but to DEMAND change based on something so insubstantial is just ridiculous.