To save SE, they most play to their strength...

[Duelle]

I don't think it would take that long. Frostbite is a complete engine, Crystal Tools is an incomplete engine. All the artwork and models and stuff was already made, so it's just a question of plugging it into Frostbite instead, and that would take maybe two weeks tops.

You pretty much beat me to the punch there.

Also, my PS2 comment was purely tongue-in-cheek, though I was serious about the programming mess behind XI. Not to mention that pre-Abyssea Vana'diel would not be able to hold my interest these days. My days of putting up with NM camping, forced partying and refresh whoring are long over.

not optimized for gamepad play, not on a hassle free system like a console

You have to keep in mind that MMORPGs are very different beasts from console games. The PS2 and XI has taught us that even with the earnings from the console market, the game in the long run suffers in terms of development because things you could do on a pure PC game you cannot do on a console if the changes surpass the capabilities of the console in question.

While it may sound harsh, the PS2 helped XI maintain a playerbase but notably hurt its potential for growth as a game.

[Seraphita]

No, SE needs to STOP playing to their strength, when their "strength" leads to such bad games. FF13 and 14 are visually stunning, the story (or what little there is in 14) is good, character personality and design is good, but nobody cares because the gameplay is so bad. SE needs to fix their problem of using outdated gameplay mechanics and features and get with the times.

I feel the same as the OP.

But why would SE need to get with the times? thats their problem....
Graphics > Gameplay seems to be their motto these days.

SE was made famous from games with shitty graphics that had great stories and gameplay.
What the hell is the point of a game that looks good if no one wants to play it cause its a piece of shit?

[Anty]

Hoo boy...

To save S-E, they need a time machine back to go back and cancel The Spirits Within, prevent Wada from becoming President, and continue the legacy that was 1990s Squaresoft for a whole 'nother decade. But since I'm not letting them use my TARDIS, going forward they need to...

1. Get rid of Wada.
2. Put Nomura back on KH3 and Versus and launch those damn games already.
3. Contract Sakaguchi etc to do an HD remake of Final Fantasy VII. Everyone wants it, so you might as well cash in on it.
4. Upgrade FFXI to FFXI-2, same game same world but now in HD. Roll out a few HD-only servers for current players to transfer to if they want to, and roll out a few HD servers specific for people who want to start over in a fresh economy.
5. Use the money from HD FFVII and FFXI for the following:
6. Cancel FFXIV and completely scrap it. Give all the people who bought it a refund or a voucher for the next project.
7. Announce Final Fantasy Online, put Yoshida in charge of it and give him unlimited staff to make it happen in two years or less. If Crystal Tools can't be salvaged within 6 months, license an engine that works (Frostbite comes to mind).
8. Hire back Matsuno and give him unlimited time and money to make any game he wants to make. Stock up on as many drugs and hookers as necessary to keep his stress under control.
9. Purchase Vanillaware and Atlus - let them keep doing what they do best (with no interference) but provide their games with a much wider market and no crappy Ignition dubs.

haha awesome ideas here

[Anty]

And rather spend 1 1/2 - 2.5 years redoing the game in an entirely new engine?

sounds stupid but if the current engine doesnt improve by 300% it will always keep new content back and every bit of content or fix will take forever... this i think is the major problem. I don't think they lack good ideas but the programming, servers, engine etc. is what holds them back big time.

[Wolfie]

I feel the same as the OP.

But why would SE need to get with the times? thats their problem....
Graphics > Gameplay seems to be their motto these days.

SE was made famous from games with shitty graphics that had great stories and gameplay.
What the hell is the point of a game that looks good if no one wants to play it cause its a piece of shit?

First, gameplay has evolved right alongside graphics. There are tons of things that people expect out of games today that didn't exist or was uncommon a decade ago: voice chat, dedicated servers, engaging and fast paced action, non-linear gameplay (FF13 was a hallway simulator), lots of customization options in terms of characters and UI and whatever, etc.

Second, SE has been famous for having graphically stunning games since the PS1 era. They ALSO had great gameplay back then too, but their gameplay model has remained virtually unchanged since the PS1. It still kinda worked with the PS2 generation, but they're flopping hard with this generation.

[Anty]

I feel the same as the OP.

But why would SE need to get with the times? thats their problem....
Graphics > Gameplay seems to be their motto these days.

SE was made famous from games with shitty graphics that had great stories and gameplay.
What the hell is the point of a game that looks good if no one wants to play it cause its a piece of shit?

you can do both and should do both ... other companies do this , some of them or most of them are a lot smaller then SE is. And have far less money, but they still manage

[Seraphita]

First, gameplay has evolved right alongside graphics. There are tons of things that people expect out of games today that didn't exist or was uncommon a decade ago: voice chat, dedicated servers, engaging and fast paced action, non-linear gameplay (FF13 was a hallway simulator), lots of customization options in terms of characters and UI and whatever, etc.

Second, SE has been famous for having graphically stunning games since the PS1 era. They ALSO had great gameplay back then too, but their gameplay model has remained virtually unchanged since the PS1. It still kinda worked with the PS2 generation, but they're flopping hard with this generation.

please explain to me where is this game there is anything that remotely resembles voice chat, engaging and fast paced action, and non-linear gameplay? Sure those things exist in other games they released, maybe 1 of them in each game. But none exist in this particular game.

[Blitz0309]

I suppose its not SE's fault. People are boring and want everything handed to them, so if you're going to make a game for the masses it has to do just that.

I'd rather they stick to their guns and make a game worth a damn, have a dedicated albeit small percentage of the gaming world. Yes ffxi was not anywhere near as profitable as wow, but damn it was a much better game. I'm not saying it didn't have its flaws and issues, but the good heavily out weighed the bad.

Instead we get ffxiv.. a game that failed at even being a cookie cutter mmo. Sure it had some revolutionary ideas.. but they failed pretty hard. Now SE is left patching holes in a sinking boat, leading those who are hopeful along with promises of a game worth playing. Meanwhile the rest of the world has moved on, and the game has already been given a fail by the industry.

The speed of the patches and development team is staggeringly slow. People have been complaining about the same issues since alpha, and they still exist. The game has been "released" for almost a year.. and not much has changed. Bring in the "well, they have to pretty much change the core of the game which takes time", though they just started to change it in the last few months. Its pathetic, both that they actually released this game in the state they did, and that they still don't give us the details on whats changing. They just leave enough information floating around to let people speculate, meanwhile they waste time developing something that's probably going to be worthless (like the market wards). That's all and fine when a game is in beta... but people paid for this game and its still not enjoyable for the majority of them.

I still read these forums to see if any information gets leaked out worth a damn. That and to read other people who are annoyed/pissed at SE as misery loves company. But all the threads are nothing but speculation, anything negative said negative is called "trolling", and nothing changes. I hop on to read threads to get a laugh when i'm bored sitting at work. Though i guess to be honest, i'm just waiting for the announcement that the project is over.

I'd laugh, but be sort of content. I guess the development on this game is sorta like watching someone on life support. You hope they pull through, but at some point you realize you're putting them through something unnecessary just because you're afraid to let go.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

First, gameplay has evolved right alongside graphics. There are tons of things that people expect out of games today that didn't exist or was uncommon a decade ago: voice chat, dedicated servers, engaging and fast paced action, non-linear gameplay (FF13 was a hallway simulator), lots of customization options in terms of characters and UI and whatever, etc.

Second, SE has been famous for having graphically stunning games since the PS1 era. They ALSO had great gameplay back then too, but their gameplay model has remained virtually unchanged since the PS1. It still kinda worked with the PS2 generation, but they're flopping hard with this generation.

Agreed. S-E has always been known not just for gameplay but for their graphical prowess. Even in the SNES days, FF6 looked pretty damn good. It's really only in the last ten years that they've fallen from grace.

you can do both and should do both ... other companies do this , some of them or most of them are a lot smaller then SE is. And have far less money, but they still manage

I think you're on to something. A lot of other companies also do it faster. S-E lately has been plagued by schedule slip and development bloat.

Let's look for a second at the biggest disappointment of this generation: Duke Nukem Forever. 15 years of development and generally accepted as a terrible, terrible game.

FFXIII was in development for 5 years. I'm not going to express an opinion on it but let's just say that it's not exactly popular.

FFXIV was also in development for 5 years, but it doesn't look like a game with 5 years worth of development in it. There are theories about why this is. The bottom line though is that S-E doesn't know how time management works.

That's not exactly fatal for a game developer. I mean, Valve put the Valve in "Valve Time" for good reason, but then again they're a privately-owned company with a money-making machine: they can afford to waste time.

Runic put everyone to shame a few years ago when they pulled an all-nighter and made Torchlight. Seriously, tiny company + red bull + a few months = money. They only made that game so they could get some cash in their pockets to fund the game they really want to make.

S-E is huge. I read somewhere that they have like 300 people working on FFXIV. So what the hell are they doing? S-E is simply horribly mismanaged.

It's not that S-E has made a conscious choice to make their games look good but play like hell. Their games don't look that good (exhibit A: clipping through your hat). It's not that they want FFXIV to suck. It's that they can't help it under current leadership.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

please explain to me where is this game there is anything that remotely resembles voice chat, engaging and fast paced action, and non-linear gameplay? Sure those things exist in other games they released, maybe 1 of them in each game. But none exist in this particular game.

FFXIV has non-linear gameplay but that's just as a result of being an MMO. All MMOs are sandboxes; this one just doesn't have anything to do in its sandbox.