Improve Dragoon DPS. WEAK in comparison to other DPS

[Vodomir]

Mandatory for achieving what? optimal dps? They both require access to rear and flank for that and in fact monk requires more frequent access.

Let me rephrase the "mandatory" part as missing a positional on a MNK doesn't impair your rotation, you just keep going - miss a positional on a DRG and your rotation is messed up big time. See how that is not even in the same boat?

[mythicrose]

So my friend has parsed using both ACT and FFXIV/LogRep2, and has noticed a large disparity between them, which he was vocally telling me about outside of the game. ACT will generally be on the conservative end of dps, so in the 200-300 range, while FFXIV and LogRep2 will be between 300-400. Has anyone else noticed this disparity? I just think it might confuse some people using ACT who think they should be hitting higher 300's, when really that comes from FFXIV/LogRep2 and higher 200's is the norm for ACT.

My friend uses ACT and generally parses me in the 300-320 range for mostly static fights like Cadecous (been consistent the last few weeks). My friend's sister uses LogRep2 where I'm pulling closer to the 400 range same fight. No gear change. Mix and match of mythology gear with the few pieces of allagan that have dropped.

[PArcher]

Mandatory for achieving what? optimal dps? They both require access to rear and flank for that and in fact monk requires more frequent access.

Monk is not mandatory in the sense that you can be off position and still complete your rotation and keep GL3 up. If a MNK makes a mistake and misses their positional, they can keep going.

DRG cannot do that; they MUST hit the positionals or they're stuck TTTing or mashing ID or HT til they can get it to work. DRG miss a positional, they have to try again, stopping their rotation entirely

Optimal is just that...optimal. EVERY job has an optimal rotation to maximize DPS.

[JetBrooks]

Monk is not mandatory in the sense that you can be off position and still complete your rotation and keep GL3 up. If a MNK makes a mistake and misses their positional, they can keep going.

DRG cannot do that; they MUST hit the positionals or they're stuck TTTing or mashing ID or HT til they can get it to work. DRG miss a positional, they have to try again, stopping their rotation entirely

People not recognizing this is precisely what I mean when I say a lot of people don't fully understand DRG.

[BlackThought]

People not recognizing this is precisely what I mean when I say a lot of people don't fully understand DRG.

I really feel it's willful ignorance, at this point. This game's been out awhile now but folks insist on clinging to their biases.

[Omagana]

Monk is not mandatory in the sense that you can be off position and still complete your rotation and keep GL3 up. If a MNK makes a mistake and misses their positional, they can keep going.

DRG cannot do that; they MUST hit the positionals or they're stuck TTTing or mashing ID or HT til they can get it to work. DRG miss a positional, they have to try again, stopping their rotation entirely

Optimal is just that...optimal. EVERY job has an optimal rotation to maximize DPS.

Let me rephrase the "mandatory" part as missing a positional on a MNK doesn't impair your rotation, you just keep going - miss a positional on a DRG and your rotation is messed up big time. See how that is not even in the same boat?

My apologies if I gave the impression I do not know this...but the question of "who's more gimped" without directional access was not in my original point. Likewise I never commented on who is more effected by losing access to rear or flank, I simply stated they both require the same directional access for full and proper rotation.

As for the ambiguity of using the term mandatory, I said it was mandatory for optimal DPS in both classes. Which is entirely true and as Vodomir says, it was not even my choice of word.

[Shurrikhan]

In most cases, I can still get quickly in and out of my two necessary positionals per 20/30 as DRG a bit more easily than I can keep up optimal dps on Monk with positions nearly blocked for extended times. Keep in mind that a ID combo, for instance, is only worth ~25% more potency than a Thrust combo in the first place. A monk will be losing more than that on almost every ability. If blocked at one opportunity, DRGs can try again 7.5 seconds later.

[EasymodeX]

Keep in mind that a ID combo, for instance, is only worth ~25% more potency than a Thrust combo in the first place.

IDC: 180 + 220 + 200 + 300 = 900 raw p
TTT: 150 + 200 + 330 = 680 raw p

IDC does 32% more raw potency than TTT.

The DE debuff is worth 11% for direct damage. Direct damage comprises ~88% of DRG damage output. Roughly 9.7% damage per second is lost, which equates to roughly 22 potency lost per second.

So every time you drop IDC and use TTT instead, you lose roughly 382 total potency.

This assumes you accurately predict/prep for the shift to TTT in place of IDC. If you misfired the Impulse Drive, you lose an additional 150 potency (250 average action potency per GCD minus a misfired 100p ID).

So mandatory loss of 382, penalty loss of 150.

TLDR: if the DRG misfires ID, they lose 150p. A MNK who misfires loses 40-50p.

If the DRG switches to TTT after misfiring, they lose 532p.

If a DRG switches without misfiring, they lose 382p.

MNKs lose 40-50p per misfire.

[JetBrooks]

So every time you drop IDC and use TTT instead, you lose roughly 382 total potency.

I hate that we're posting such good information in such a silly thread, but on a related note: If I know a mob is going to die in 6 more GCD moves, and it's time to use IDC, is it more effective to do double TTT instead?

Basically it's a question of 3 ticks of IDC DOT (which I realize unfortunately depends on server time) vs up-front potency of just doing TTT instead.

[EasymodeX]

If I know a mob is going to die in 6 more GCD moves, and it's time to use IDC, is it more effective to do double TTT instead?

Let's see ... we're talking about 6 GCDs of remaining time. Based on the context that you are deciding on IDC or TTT, then the prior DE and CT debuffs are going to fall off. Generally, this means they will last into the D and C of the option.

IDC TTT provides (180 + 220 + 200 + 150 + 200 + 330) * 1.11 = 1421p in direct damage, and roughly 7.5 seconds of CT DoT (at 30p per 3). Total, roughly 1496.

TTT TTT provides (150 + 200) * 1.11 + (330 + 150 + 200 + 330) = 1399.

Yeah, the direct damage of the IDC chain alone is 600p. TTT is 680. You get 60-90p from the CT DoT. That basically makes up the raw potency difference. The IDC refresh picks up a bonus DE debuff over ~4 GCDs, and that puts it ahead of TTTTTT.

IDC TTT > TTT TTT.

Edit: Did not take into account AAs. AAs are 100p per 3s. That 10s of DE debuff is ~36.7p of AAs -- so even more in favor of IDC TTT.