Common Courtesy with End-game Raids/Dungeons

[ispano]

so much elitism, so little common human sense. did you forget that you have to train people to do their job? even a frycook cant go and do everything immediately just by watching a video or reading a guide. it takes doing the work to get a feel for it. You think doctors just read books and are immediately an expert in their field? no, it takes PRACTICE and PATIENCE. those 2 words are things you know very little to nothing of i guess. or did you forget when you first did every single dungeon.

Not really the best comparison. Learning to be a Doctor, or some other profession is much closer to learning to play the game as a whole, or a given class/job. Not a given fight. When you have experience from many other fights in the game, and even other games, a video could be all you need to learn a new fight.

[Dracosavarian]

Not really the best comparison. Learning to be a Doctor, or some other profession is much closer to learning to play the game as a whole, or a given class/job. Not a given fight. When you have experience from many other fights in the game, and even other games, a video could be all you need to learn a new fight.

No, it is a good comparison, and one that is truthful to boot.

Fun fact. Not everyone is an auditory or visual learner. A good deal of us, such as myself, are kinesthetic. Meaning, we learn by DOING. Tactile learners. For example the boss in Aurum Vale that can one shot you, the cyclops with that 1000 ton ability that is an aoe circle around it. Videos mention very little about it. I know, I researched the dungeon before going in. I learned the quirks and mechanics of the fight by having patient DF members and working through it myself, despite the multiple videos I watched having failed me, as so many end game players advise watching.

I was still getting one shotted or dropped to near nothing as a tank. Because none of the videos, and even the people telling me about the boss, told me specifically that it is better to dodge the attack by retreating full on backwards, instead of rushing forwards and through and behind the boss or to it's side to dodge the attack. These are things you have to learn on your own.

Minor details like that make a big difference. Details that get missed and that many videos never deign to explain.

Experience in the game trumps everything. Period. Videos can only tell you so much. Learning first hand? It sticks with you. I can assure you of that.

[ispano]

No, it is a good comparison, and one that is truthful to boot.

No, it wasn't. He was comparing learning a single encounter/instance to a full job. Which isn't quite right. It would be more akin to learning your job through the whole game and comparing that to a job in real life.

Also, I know people learn differently. I also know that some of them don't learn as well in a given way as they think they do. I've seen plenty of people who say they learn by doing, but then fail to learn something repeatedly, even though they experience it over and over.

Note, i'm not saying everyone should be required to research prior. Just if you expect a certain type of person, be it people who research or people who want to go in blind, you don't use DF. AND not to blindly bash the ability to research ahead of time, like some in the thread have done.

[Dracosavarian]

No, it wasn't. He was comparing learning a single encounter/instance to a full job. Which isn't quite right. It would be more akin to learning your job through the whole game and comparing that to a job in real life.

I strongly disagree and will continue to stand by his point. Which is that you don't truly learn something by simply reading a book, or watching a video. Human Beings don't work that way. Kinesthetic learners don't work that way. Mayhaps you do. But I am not you. Neither is a great deal of the human populace. Say what you will, but his point stands. No matter how much you wish to try and refute it.

A doctor doesn't learn how to perform surgery by simply watching a video. Nor does a Paladin Tank in FFXIV learn minor intricacies of a fight by merely reading about it or watching a great deal of video footage about it.

His point is that experience trumps all. Whether a Job in Information Technology, being a Surgeon, or tanking a certain EX mode boss in FFXIV...experience through learning will trump watching a video any day of the way. Period.

[ispano]

-snip-

Again, I wasn't arguing his point. I was saying his example was a bit off for his point.

[Dracosavarian]

Again, I wasn't arguing his point. I was saying his example was a bit off for his point.

Mmmm, mayhaps you feel that way. I do not. I got the core of his argument, via the analogy he made. Which was correct. You don't learn by simply reading or watching something. It's like survival shows. Sure, you can watch Cody on Dual Survival make fire via primitive methods ten ways until sunday. It doesn't mean that you actually KNOW how to do it yourself. It takes time, experience, and personal effort set aside to learn how to do so.

Same goes for these fights, coil, CT, etc.

That rule goes doubly so for Tanks such as myself.

[ispano]

-Snip-

Ok let me put it this way. Learning to play Paladin or perhaps just simply Tanks is akin to learning to be a doctor irl. Learning the nuances of say Titan Extreme is more like said Doctor learning to perform a specific surgery.

[Doo]

His point is that experience trumps all. Whether a Job in Information Technology, being a Surgeon, or tanking a certain EX mode boss in FFXIV...experience through learning will trump watching a video any day of the way. Period.

Experience is important. The point of videos and strategy guides is to speed up the learning process so you don't be a dead weight for a long time. In a game where 7 other players are depending on you to execute your phases/rotations it helps.

[Dracosavarian]

Experience is important. The point of videos and strategy guides is to speed up the learning process so you don't be a dead weight for a long time. In a game where 7 other players are depending on you to execute your phases/rotations it helps.

In my experience, in game experience has been far more valuable then videos or walkthroughs. Videos miss A LOT. Every dungeon I go into, I watch videos beforehand, and in my experience in almost every single situation, said videos and walkthroughs everyone is espousing has missed deeply critical information. Minor nuances of the fight that make a BIG difference.

Maybe it's because I work I.T., but in general, I never assume someone knows something. I EXPLAIN EVERYTHING when I come across someone new in a dungeon to the best of my ability. Even seemingly minor and simple stuff. It makes a huge difference in the longrun. And many, many, many of these videos fail to do just that.

[Doo]

In my experience, in game experience has been far more valuable then videos or walkthroughs. Videos miss A LOT. Every dungeon I go into, I watch videos beforehand, and in my experience in almost every single situation, said videos and walkthroughs everyone is espousing has missed deeply critical information. Minor nuances of the fight that make a BIG difference.

My Happy videos confuses me as well but there are some guides/videos that does a better job at explaining things. Like I was able to OT tank Garuda Ext in duty finder and won thanks to having watched a vid of positioning prior. It's almost a must for a tank because if we don't know positioning, we look extremely silly and the group disbands/rage quits fast.

Dungeons and other easy content I have no issues with new players trying to learn without any knowledge of it before hand and I have no issues explaining since it's all simple tank and spank. For Extreme primals and harder content, it's almost a must to what you're getting yourself into.