Do you consider fun to memorize fights?

[BoomerOU]

I don't really memorize the patterns, I just memorize my response to situations. Works well for me so far, and yea I find most non-light party bosses fun, with a few 4man exceptions like siren, final stone vigil boss, DD bosses, and final brayflox boss which I also find fun. The only boss I really dislike is ADS, for both mechanics and visuals.

[Billie21]

I don't play videogames to play memory (unless it's a memory-simulation ofc).

Most MMOs you can be good at purely by playing a lot and earning the best gear. FFXIV actually requires you to have gaming skill. I for one enjoy it.

There are more "gaming skills" than just memorisation.

Sadly, the game is already barely playable as it is (for a part of the players at least).
Keeping the same game mechanics and making it unpredictable would mean that all the players who currently have to act before the attacks happen would become unable to win.

[LineageRazor]

Victory through rote memorization?

Battletoads: The MMO!

[EasymodeX]

Umm, I don't memorize the fights. I can't really tell you what order Titan HM or EX does things in, except that Titan HM landslides before he mountain busters.

Well, on EX he summons the adds after transitions.

[KogaDrake]

Just because things are scripted does not mean you have to memorize the order to kill them. You can do every fight in this game reactive (assuming a reasonable connection where you don't need to premove to avoid).

I have been playing MMO for years and my brain does not memorize well, but I have good reactions and and refuse to memorize the order since it isn't required. now since it is scripted and you do it so many times in time you can have a good idea when things are coming even without memorizing, but that is true with any fight

Lets stop the is it fun to need to memorize since you doing need to do it anyways.

I'm all for random fights in 2.2 since it does not change anything in my play style, but i can only imagine the forums QQ if things go random and you now may die to RNG.

[CrystalRainbow]

NO, I do not. I would sooner have it random, but have enough reaction time to move.

[Zantetsuken]

Thornmarch and Siren both have a degree of randomness/chaos to them, and they're both enjoyable fights for those who can think on their feet.

Also, nobody is arguing for full randomness for Primals (eg - Ifrit spamming hellfire), but it would be nice to have them mix up all their standard moves (on cooldowns of course). Even now, their moves are all telegraphed, so if you're used to the tells, you shouldn't worry much.

The fact is, memorization puts the weight of success entirely on the party. When a party fails, the fingers of blame come out (and God help you if you're a newbie at the fight) This is yet another catalyst for elitism and of the toxic culture in the game. RNG difficulty helps to distribute that frustration of loss to the 'system'. Players can point to 'bad luck' in a fight, which means that the party might be more likely to try again to see if they get a better rotation.

[MasamuneBranford]

I don't play videogames to play memory (unless it's a memory-simulation ofc).

There are more "gaming skills" than just memorization.

Sadly, the game is already barely playable as it is (for a part of the players at least).
Keeping the same game mechanics and making it unpredictable would mean that all the players who currently have to act before the attacks happen would become unable to win.

It's memory in addition to familiar MMO concepts.

Garuda is memory while a crowd control test for tanks.
Titan is memory while DPS race for DPS
Ifrit is memory while a healing rush for healers

If you notice - each of the three primals battles are designed to challenge one role (more than others) while also challenging everyone with memorization.

Twintania without a doubt requires skill.

[Bufkus]

Choice is fantastic. I wish more games not only offered choice but made you choose between multiple viable options, rather than funneling everyone into the same mold, just because it's cheaper to produce.

While I agree, I think that discussion is completely different than what this topic is about.

[Fendred]

Any well designed boss fight worth its salt is going to have patterns for players to recognize and exploit because that is the basis of good encounter design. A boss that switches tactics is merely changing his attack pattern, which in turn is a pattern that players can recognize. If I do action x, he will start doing x, y, z, but he will do a, b, c if I do something else.

The problem with the encounter design here is not the lack of dynamically changing boss tactics, but rather that many of the attacks that end game bosses have come without any warning or cues. For instance, Twintania puts a big glowing symbol above someone's head. How is that supposed to indicate he is going to lob a fireball that spreads its damage out among players? All I know is he is targeting me with something fire related, so I really have no idea how to react to it as a new player. Furthermore, what indication does it give that it has a relationship with the fiery whirlwind he uses on other players? What are those strange platforms he puts on the ground? Do they give any indication of how they are supposed to be used?

The problem is not patterns, but the lack of sufficient cues for pattern recognition. In addition, no pattern should come so suddenly that a new player cannot in some hypothetical situation compensate for it. Ifrit EX's room wide plumes after each leap comes entirely without any warning and is instant death if the players don't know they need to stand in certain spots.