Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Ihm]

I got a pretty crazy accuracy amount (500 ish T_T) because I really can't play in CT (far too boring ) and no luck in turn 4 / 5 so far, but I still can answer your question : between 270 and 310 dps on titan X (310 was the highest I did, but hey 2 warriors tanking so their debuff was up a lot), consistantly. No lb yadda yadda.

On Ifrit usually, by the time I do ID - Dis - legsweep or Ph the nail im attackin is already destroyed. No need to use TTT whatsoever

What Warrior debuff are you referring to? Storm's Eye doesn't affect us if that's what you're referring to.

[VaShawn]

Guys, can I use 2 hot bars at once? Using a gamepad and I'm out of slots! Can I keep a second bar on screen for buffs only? And use gamepad while clicking on on second bar (buffs) with mouse?

[Sygmaelle]

Oh meh thought it was the case for storm's eye

[whiskeybravo]

Woot. Got those Allagan Gauntlets of Maiming last night First clear on T1-2 (yea I know, way behind)

Guys, can I use 2 hot bars at once? Using a gamepad and I'm out of slots! Can I keep a second bar on screen for buffs only? And use gamepad while clicking on on second bar (buffs) with mouse?

The best bet is using the expanded hotbar option so that holding L2 + R2 give you an additional 8 actions. That's where I put the less used abilities like Second Wind, Invigorate, Elusive jump (all on D-pad buttons) and also the AoE moves (Heavy Thrust on same button as normal bar, then Ring of thorns, Doomspike and Dragonfire Dive on the face buttons). Should have enough space on the main bar for everything else (side note, I use the same layout for both sides so it doesn't matter which trigger I pull first but its personal preference)

If not, you could look at maco'ing in some abilities like Internal Release and Bloodbath into Vorpal Thrust and Full Thrust which would use them on cooldown. I would avoid macro'ing into True Thrust as I've noticed a tendency of it not registering the attack towards the combo (specifically on Heavy Swing w/ Warrior)

[EasymodeX]

While this might seem good to maximize damage, I really don't see how this is a proper or even effective way to do the nails. I find that a simple impulse drive / disembowel combo / ocd abilities is generally the way to go.

The IDC chain is bad for nails. Nails should not be surviving long enough for the CT DoT to have any meaningful impact if you use it on the nail being attacked. In addition, the pierce debuff is basically in the same situation unless your entire group is DRG+BRD. By the time you get the second GCD off, the nail should be down to 40-60% hp.

This strategy with decent dps generally allows us to kill all the nails (even the big one) without using limit break, and is much easier for the healers to manage because they're dying at the same pace.

We use this approach to sell Ifrit with 3 DPS. The nails should die at a consistent pace regardless, but that is a skillcheck for your group.

[Eclips]

The IDC chain is bad for nails. Nails should not be surviving long enough for the CT DoT to have any meaningful impact if you use it on the nail being attacked. In addition, the pierce debuff is basically in the same situation unless your entire group is DRG+BRD. By the time you get the second GCD off, the nail should be down to 40-60% hp.

You don't really need to use CT. The point of the combo is to put 400 potency on the nail +10% more for the bard before you move on. As long as the dps in the group is focusing the same nail, you really only get time for 2 globals, from my experience.

We use this approach to sell Ifrit with 3 DPS. The nails should die at a consistent pace regardless, but that is a skillcheck for your group.

While that strategy may work for your ifrit extreme selling group, I don't think the majority of players here are selling ifrit extreme while DPSing. I think most of them are spending their time trying to clear and gear. Asking a player in a duty finder group / whatever to spam dot ifrits nails just seems like a bad idea to me. In my opinion, it seems safer and easier to just focus one nail at a time until it is dead. If you have time for 2 gcds, impulse drive + disembowel. If you have time for 3, tt,vt,ft.

I think that really it just depends on your group makeup. If you're in a voip'd ifrit selling group with gear, it probably doesn't really matter how you want to optimize your strategy as you could probably maximize your dps by just sitting ifrit during the nail phase and letting your group take care of most of the nails if you really wanted to. I think answering Kaethe's question in a way that helps MOST players is more productive in this situation.

[EasymodeX]

You don't really need to use CT. The point of the combo is to put 400 potency on the nail +10% more for the bard before you move on. As long as the dps in the group is focusing the same nail, you really only get time for 2 globals, from my experience.
[...]If you have time for 3, tt,vt,ft.

180 220 180 220 180 220 = 200/s + 10% on remaining pierce-incoming health (50% base hp affected, half group applicable via pierce damage = 2.5% total nail EHP removed = 1/(1-.025) = 1% increased total DPS) = 200 + 1%*(200*4 * 1.3) = 210.4 pps

150 200 330 150 200 330 = 227 pps

Then again the staggered damage of the TTT can often be inefficient.


Not bad I guess. I would suggest that you preload the ID on the current debuffed nail then initiate with DE on the next where possible. Skipping to the next nail to drop a CT would be efficient. Actually you could get complicated:

ID on nail 1
DE nail 2 (apply debuff to full hp)
CT nail 3
ID nail 2
DE nail 3
CT 4
ID 3
DE 4
CT 5

That would be pretty interesting. Could throw the PH with the CT. Lot of hectic movement though.


PH spam seems a lot more stable with:

320 320 320 320 320 320 = 320 pps.


You can basically do 50% more damage during nail phase by being effective, or not. Note that Bards should be tab-dotting as well, which means less pierce debuff synergy than in a vanilla approach.

Moreover, you're basically pressing tab and pressing 1 button. It's pretty simple and leaves a lot of time for the player to consider mechanics.

Asking a player in a duty finder group / whatever to spam dot ifrits nails just seems like a bad idea to me.

Dunno, I just try to optimize DPS on a DPS class.

you could probably maximize your dps by just sitting ifrit during the nail phase and letting your group take care of most of the nails if you really wanted to.

That's very very stupid.

[Eclips]

I see what you're saying EMX but I can't help but keep in mind that this game was made for a ps3. All of the math / strategies you put out here are good in theory, but I can't see a practical use for this unless you're in a dot heavy group composition. I'll give your strategy a try in the next ifrit extreme I do, but I feel like I'm going to lose a lot of damage / autoattack uptime on nails when I have to move to dot the 3rd nail and go in reverse once I reach the searing wind nails. Does every ph you use tick all the way out? I just can't see the 3rd and 4th nails lasting 18s when the rest of the dps are just assisting them down.

I feel like you're getting confused about why I use ID/DE. The piercing debuff is a moot point as it is still a consistent 400 potency in 2 gcds as you make your way around. In most all of the groups that I've downed ifrit extreme with, (as drg, blm, whm, and pld), the nails only last 2 globals per as long as people are assisting. Sometimes they die even quicker when a BLM is on his game. This gives me about 5 seconds on the first nail, 5 seconds on the next nail, and bam, the group is on the 3rd nail by the 10 second mark. That one dies in 2 gcds, the next in 2 gcds, etc.

Maybe if the group DPS is very low I could see that you would be maximizing dps this way, but when you have 3 other competent DPS in your group, the tab-dotting strategy becomes very ineffective.

[EasymodeX]

I feel like I'm going to lose a lot of damage / autoattack uptime on nails when I have to move to dot the 3rd nail and go in reverse once I reach the searing wind nails.

Takes some getting used to but you should be able to maintain nearly 100% contact. It takes like 2.3s to run between nails. The only tricky part is continuing to use oGCDs like Leg Sweep and Jump while doing that. That can take more timing and is more suitable for the third nail phase.

Does every ph you use tick all the way out? I just can't see the 3rd and 4th nails lasting 18s when the rest of the dps are just assisting them down.

Yes pretty much. I skip the first nail and start DoTing the second one and continue around. The first one probably only ticks for half or 2/3s of the DoT, but that's still 270p, much more than the ~210-227 average.

I feel like you're getting confused about why I use ID/DE.[...] That one dies in 2 gcds, the next in 2 gcds, etc.

In this case you should use the standard TTT combo. If the nail you just used True/Vorpal on is about to die (e.g. wasted Full Thrust damage), then move to the next nail pre-emptively and use FT directly on it. The TTT combo is more efficient than using ID+DE spam across the board unless you "waste" a lot of the FT damage potential.

Maybe if the group DPS is very low I could see that you would be maximizing dps this way, but when you have 3 other competent DPS in your group, the tab-dotting strategy becomes very ineffective.

Have all the DPS tab DOT ^_^.

Actually we had a Bard and SMN both tab-DoT in my first clear.

It's simply efficient. Edit: Back then I was just TTT spamming. FWIW one DPS should maintain direct damage only to make the nails go down at a consistently staggered pace.

[JetBrooks]

I did the phlebotomize tab dotting on my first Ifrit EX clear. Another nice advantage is that you're spending less time at each nail, giving you more flexibility to dodge murderous healers running around with Searing Wind, which in my opinion, is the hardest part of the fight as melee =p