Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Eclips]

I can see that having a bard, summoner, and dragoon all dotting out the nails could be a viable way to complete the nail phase. I imagine whatever your last dps slot is, it is the one that sacrifices their dps rotation to defeat the nails.

... Which is entirely my point. It seems that this strategy spreads your damage and takes even longer, due to the fact that you have to wait for dots to tick out and and take longer on the beginning nails (which makes things difficult for the healers / melee).

I find 2gcds or less by each damage dealer on each nail to be far quicker and far more manageable / simple / easier to heal as a strategy for that fight.

Spreading dots might increase YOUR overall DPS, but I find killing the nails quicker increases the groups overall DPS. The sooner the nails are dead, the quicker you can jump back on ifrit and the sooner the healers can refocus solely on the tanks.

[EasymodeX]

I imagine whatever your last dps slot is, it is the one that sacrifices their dps rotation to defeat the nails.

BLMs have minimal tab-dotting efficiency. Monks have a rather good efficiency, but it is very awkward to execute on nails. Also, Monks have a fast enough GCD that they can't really run between nails effectively (at least, do so and maintain positional bonuses). Those two classes should be the go-to direct damage classes to simply punch nails in the face.

... Which is entirely my point. It seems that this strategy spreads your damage and takes even longer,

... DRGs, BRDs, and SMNs tab-dotting will cause the nail phases to complete much, much more quickly.

due to the fact that you have to wait for dots to tick out and and take longer on the beginning nails (which makes things difficult for the healers / melee).

The DoTs will tick out regardless. The only adjustment is how much direct damage you need to throw at the first few nails to give healers standing room. If you have a lot of players with DoTs, you probably need to adjust and throw more direct damage on the first few to begin the rotation.

I find 2gcds or less by each damage dealer on each nail to be far quicker and far more manageable / simple / easier to heal as a strategy for that fight.

It's quicker to spend 1gcd of 3 players and 3 gcds of 1 player per nail (total: 6 GCDs) rather than 2 GCDs from 4 players (total: 8 GCDs). ... or less. It's been awhile since I've done Ifrit with 4 DPS. Probably 1gcd of 3 players and 2gcds of 1 player for a total of 5 GCDs versus ~7 or something.

In terms of complexity ... shrug. It's not complex for a player or two to go tab-DoT. It's frankly a bit trivial but it's a bit refreshing compared to doing virtually the same rotation as the other hundred hours of combat time.

The sooner the nails are dead, the quicker you can jump back on ifrit and the sooner the healers can refocus solely on the tanks.

Yes, which is why throwing out 320p per GCD is better than throwing out 227p per GCD. You're not being logical.

[Eclips]

I feel like more often than not we play with entirely different group compositions and see this fight from an entirely different perspective. Yes, your math checks out. Yes, your strategy kills nails quicker overall if everyone tab dots. However, and you know this, theorycrafting and rotations look good on paper but are not practical on each fight.

So let's put it like this, if you have a primarily a dot damage group, spread damage among the nails and tab phlebotomize while designating either the blm or the monk to kill nails.
If you have a primarily burst group, just do a gcd or two on the nail and move on. That's how I would suggest it to people.

[kaethe]

So basically we pop our dmg buffs at the beginning of the fight and on the nails phase? Due to eruption it's probably not worth popping the buffs some other time?

What's the strategy to maximise dmg output when you're chained? Focus on a nail close to Ifrit and do our normal rotation?

Is it possible to maintain cd on the jumps to close the distance after eruption ends? Especially the two - eruptions phase.

EMX, is our aoe wide enough to hit two nails (3rd set) ?

[Andyman]

I can get in a full set of abilities with full duration of buffs after he descends from hellfire & before he goes to do 'cars'.

HT-IR-ID-BFB-Dis-Sweep-CT-PS-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-LS-FT-DFD/SSD

Now, sometimes I can get a fracture off too, so the dots ticking still as he does 'cars'. Just make sure to position yourself ready to heavy thrust as he moves himself to the tank, and be sure to get into the safe zone when the fire plumes are gonna go up.

[kaethe]

I can get in a full set of abilities with full duration of buffs after he descends from hellfire & before he goes to do 'cars'.

HT-IR-ID-BFB-Dis-Sweep-CT-PS-Ph-Jump-TT-VT-LS-FT-DFD/SSD

Now, sometimes I can get a fracture off too, so the dots ticking still as he does 'cars'. Just make sure to position yourself ready to heavy thrust as he moves himself to the tank, and be sure to get into the safe zone when the fire plumes are gonna go up.

But if you pop buffs on the phase after he'll fire and before 'cars', your buffs would still be on cd when the nails appear? Or at least only IR would be ready

[Andyman]

Suppose it depends if your group needs it for that phase or not, the group I run with is heavily geared so its really a non-issue, so I like to get all my burst out in one go. The cooldowns come back up quickly again anyway, as they're recharging during the car phase & eruptions etc. They're pretty much good to go again.

[EasymodeX]

In terms of buff timing on Ifrit, use them at the start of the fight. They should be up pretty soon before Ifrit jumps. Hold them until he lands and does his mass AOE, then pop them. You should have pretty much exactly ~22 seconds during the eruption sequence before he jumps again for charges.

After that, your buffs should be available right before [second] nails. You can either burn them or hold them. Hold them if your group DPS sucks on nails. Otherwise it doesn't matter much. Usually I just pop them. In either method, the buffs should be available for the next ~22s eruption sequence.

After that, it doesn't matter. Even if you use your buffs before third nails, the nail phase generally lasts long enough for you to re-use your buffs. If not, then your group DPS is good enough that your buffs don't matter for the nails anyways.



In terms of the leash, if your OT is leashed you should continue whatever nail pattern you were doing. If they swap to MT or you are leashed to MT, then go do some sustained DPS business on the nails under Ifrit or near him (IDC chains, tab-PH). Just make sure you are careful when you pop the nails for the debuff timing. E.g. don't be stupid. There is a decent length for the 1stack leash, so you have some room to work with. Generally 3-4 nails should be accessible from the MT leash position.


Also, yes, using Doomspike is DPS-efficient on double nails. Just watch your TP.

So let's put it like this, if you have a primarily a dot damage group, spread damage among the nails and tab phlebotomize while designating either the blm or the monk to kill nails.
If you have a primarily burst group, just do a gcd or two on the nail and move on. That's how I would suggest it to people.

If you have a group with highly efficient DoT classes, then you need to do direct damage. If you have a group with direct damage or mixed damage, you should tab-DoT.

Dotting is simply more total DPS. Direct damage is necessary to control the nail deaths. So you need both.

[Januzeal]

I have no problem pulling this off on the ps3, actually it seems to be really fun and it's not as hard as it sounds as long as you keep an eye on you buffs & debuffs

[BrandoH]

I have no problem pulling this off on the ps3, actually it seems to be really fun and it's not as hard as it sounds as long as you keep an eye on you buffs & debuffs

it's a lot easier with the third bar.