Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[ColdestHeaven]

Back on the limit break topic, there were some theories about monk's LB being stronger than dragoon's LB. Is there any truth to that?

LB is scaled on the global "gearing" of the group. Its not only your and it's indeed influenced by dps buffs.

So would it matter if everyone activated at once all their damage buffs at the moment the DPS uses the LB?

[Sygmaelle]

Back on the limit break topic, there were some theories about monk's LB being stronger than dragoon's LB. Is there any truth to that?

So would it matter if everyone activated at once all their damage buffs at the moment the DPS uses the LB?

That's something that totally worth a test imho And as someone mentionned, if you got relic+1, your lb will do more damage

[EasymodeX]

- How is critical damage calculated? Most games it's like double damage, but that doesn't seem to be the case in FFXIV.

Crits are 1.5x in FF14.

- Is determination better to get over skill speed, even when they contribute the same quantity of stats according to the strength equivalency table? It seems like having skill speed has the liability of DoT clipping and such.

Assuming the weights add up to the same, then it's personal preference.

SS has 1 objective detriment and that is you will burn TP marginally faster. On the other hand, it has 1 subjective benefit, and that is that you can get your attacks in slightly more quickly (e.g. boss is casting a tail swipe, and your Heavy Thrust needs to cycle down the GCD so you can use Impulse Drive, WILL YOU MAKE IT? -- 0.05s off the GCD over 8 attacks could let you get the ID off cleanly).

There's also the fringe subjective disadvantage to SS where you have brain lag and then use an OGCD late. Higher SS will cause animation clipping whereas less SS will cause less animation clipping. This is pretty rare, although maybe it's more applicable re: jumps.

Overall SS versus DET/CRT have very minor practical tradeoffs back and forth assuming the stat weights add up to similar amounts.

[Glyini]

For 3 mob trash pulls is it better to HT>RoT>IDC>DS till heavy falls off or is it better to
HT>RoT>IDC>I> Switch targets>DC>Main targetHT>RoT>I>Switch targets>DC>Doomspike spam.

For 2 mobs it seems like rotation 2 is better dropping an IDC for the thrid target and sticking a PB on each target before DS spam.

I have a tank that can hold the threat and TP is no problem with invigorate and switching to single target before I go dry. Just curious what would do better for shaving a little time off ak farm.

[EasymodeX]

For 3mob trash, it's efficient to just spam HT + ROT repeatedly than to use IDC.

However, if the primary target will be alive for more than 20s, then IDC breaks even. If the secondary targets will be alive for more than 40s, then IDC is worth. If you have a bard also pew pewing to take advantage of the DE debuff, then it is worth.

Phlebotomizing each target is also good in general -- slightly less DPS than HT-ROT, slightly better damage per TP.


Doomspike is higher DPS, but significantly less efficient than HT-ROT. Against 5+ targets it becomes efficient for TP over HT-ROT.

[Ariahna]

A lot of useful info here for a job that none wants to bring to coil...

[Ayvar]

A lot of useful info here for a job that none wants to bring to coil...

I would say that this is mostly accurate. Every discussion I've seen about whether or not melee have a place in coil boils down to whether you want to trade damage for ease of completion. The main benefit to melee dps is damage, and they will perform better than the other classes if played correctly. However, very few of the fights in Coil are enough of a dps race that the added damage from the melee makes the difference. Turn 1 favors utility since extra damage isn't needed (the fight is a snore and can even be kited) and ranged can do everything a melee can on the fight while still providing the added utility to make it easier. Turn 2 ranged have a simpler time avoiding AE (though this isn't much of an issue if you play right), they don't have to pause dps to pass their rot debuff, and since Turn 2 is a survival fight a little extra dps doesn't mean much over the increase in survivability provided by range. People might argue that downing the fight faster is increasing "survivability" since it reduces the chances for mistakes, but there aren't many groups that will agree that the slight reduction in fight duration is worth losing the utility of silences/mana/rot/AE avoidance.

Turn 4 is probably the first instance where every ounce of dps you can squeeze out is worth it. Dragoon AE is quite good so the group doesn't suffer there, and the added single target damage and limit break is good for the Dreadnaughts and the single Rook spawn. The only downside to taking a Dragoon over a caster dps is the added AE damage from the soldiers, but this is only a factor on the 4-soldier spawn and any Dragoon that knows anything about weaving in and out of melee range between GCDs can essentially counteract almost all of that damage.

In short, I agree with you on Turns 1 and 2, but not on Turn 4. Currently, finding a good Free Company is probably your best bet, since I do not see much motivation for PUG groups to want melee (for the moment) as they would primarily aim for the least complicated Turn 1/2 completion.

[Maero]

A lot of useful info here for a job that none wants to bring to coil...

What reason do people have or they just hate Dragoons?

[Casterbridge]

What reason do people have or they just hate Dragoons?

From whatI've seen the big issues is the fights are generally unfriendly to melee. Next a lot of the dragoon utility is useless in the raid. Most believe a monk has better single target damage than dragoon (not saying this is true or untrue just stating popular opinion I've seen) also the monk has slightly better usable utility.

So, especially in PuG groups, dragoons are pretty much bottom of the barrel choice wise, with monks close behind, it's just easier to bring ranged dps, think the most popular groups formed right now are 2x paladins, 2x bard, 1x BM, 1x other ranged, 1x White Mage and 1x Scholar.

Again this is what I'm seeing as popular opinion, doesn't mean a dragoon can't go in and do well in Coil.

[Sparhwk]

SNip....
Again this is what I'm seeing as popular opinion, doesn't mean a dragoon can't go in and do well in Coil.

I've done coil turn 4 twice now as Dragoon. Popular opinion is nothing but hogwash. Most people get a retarted idea in their head and stick with it despite not knowing how things actually work or basing their idea on an imperfect parse.

Like any raid it can be a pain for melee but it's perfectly learnable and you can stay close to best dps with ranged as you learn the encounters and little tricks to make the fight eaiser. Coil is more abuot player skill than class comp, other than paladins due to damage intake.