Enough

[AdvancedWind]

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But how would you do it?

If you set the Ilv too high, it takes the point of it being a easy and quick casual way to try content.
If you make the fights too easy so any random group formed by DF can win it, you just flat out take the fun out of the game.
If you try to optimize the party configuration (We all know there's no need for 2 tanks on Titan HM, for example), you alienate certain jobs

There's no way to make a random party matchmaking a "viable way to get things done" without vastly simplifying the content, and that would be bad for the game in the long run.

Also, DF is actually somewhat viable even for EX primals. I have wins on pretty much everything on DF, except Titan EX. And I'm pretty sure if I tried enough times, I'd get a win on that too, but why bother?

In fact, my first Ultima HM win was on my first run on duty finder. I actually first DF Ifrit EX before joining server parties.

[Dhex]

The only way I see them making Titan easier is to remove plumes and landslide, then the fight would be so easy it's not even worth it.

I disagree;

one-shot mechanics are just the route the dev. team decided to take. Consider the following:

Weight of the Land: Reduce the radius and damage of Weight of the Land, add a status marker +10% Damage taken from Weight of the Land per status marker; up to 3 stacks.

Landslide: Stuns target for 15s. No knock-back.

Turn up bomb damage; add lower damage Mountain Busters before, but not during, the heart phase.

What this does - Landslide dodging is still important but it doesn't simply one-shot you and remove you from the battle entirely. A stunned healer on Mountain Buster? Ouch; tank is boned if they're not quick with a CD. A stunned DPS during heart phase? Mmm dat party gonna eat a Fury; unless they compensate with skill! A stun during the bomb phase? Aw $#%@ son you so dead, but it's okay you can get a raise!

WoL becomes more forgiving - players can space out and even eat a plume if they have to. Healers know who to keep an eye on because of the stacking debuff... etc.


TL;DR

It can still be engaging without being as punishing by changing certain elements.

[FritoBandito]

I personally wouldn't mind if the boss fights are easier as long as they remain fun.

For example, the first battle with Ultima Weapon is very easy, but it's also a very fun fight that keeps you moving. I'm fine with that. I don't mind that it's easy because it's just plain fun.

[AdvancedWind]

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But without a few one shot mechanics you greatly reduce a fight difficulty. It's hard to make something that doesn't harshly punish mistakes but remains challenging. Your example sounds good on paper, but would actually make Titan easier than Garuda because it allows too many mistakes. Fight would simply become "don't be stunned by the easiest move to avoid".

WoTl change would make it more forgiving and easy to avoid than Eruption. Mountain buster change would eliminate the only challenge a healer has during the fight.

Being punished due to mistakes, specially ones that are, let's face it, trivial (move from bad thing), is what makes fights harder on any game that allows the player to evade enemy attacks by moving. If you can be hit by nearly anything and not have that much impact outside of very specific situations, you might as well have the enemy just drop dead on engage. There's a reason the vast majority of the really damaging and dangerous moves in the game also happen to have the largest cast times, the most predictable patterns and simplest AoEs, with very few exceptions.

Heck, current Titan is actually not even as harsh as people make it out to be, the only real punishing move is landslide, and it also happens to be the easiest to avoid (it's a narrow line AoE that will most likely only target a single person) and has a big tell before the Aoe marker even shows up. Bombs doesn't kill you, you can eat 2 WoLs depending on your job, Heart dies easily with limit break, mountain buster is infrequent, etc. A slight overgear (ilv75ish) trivializes every mechanic but landslide.

[Dhex]

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The point was to show how a fight can be made less punishing.

Designing fights to take several attempts that requires players to be engaged - without the need to fall back on the crutch of one-shot mechanics.

Titan HM is not hard in iL75, and it's not hard in general; but it is designed so that if you're attempting it in lower gear setups that a single mistake means an eventual wipe. That's both punishing and frustrating - which should inspire you to do better; to seek out better gear. If you've got players that still can't clear it even after hours of attempting it, gearing, buying consumables - because of lag or one shots - it leads to a very discouraged feeling - a disenfranchisement with the game.

Yoshi-P has said before; older content will become easier as new content is added. You will likely see Titan HM become less difficult eventually - but if it's not soon enough for casual/less apt/handicapped/less-than perfectly connected players to beat it then it really doesn't make a difference. Titan EX is out - CT is out and another set of new content is being talked about already.

So, why is Titan HM still a thing for so many people?

[Doo]

But how would you do it?

In fact, my first Ultima HM win was on my first run on duty finder. I actually first DF Ifrit EX before joining server parties.

Ultima is pretty forgiving. I must of beaten it like 20 times on df with guys that died like 5-10 times and still able to recover.

I just don't like the reason for these fights to be hard is having to rely on 7 others to play near perfect in order to win. MMO's I've played DCUO, FFXI pre abyssea, and Neverwinter didn't feel this way and yet they manage to make hard content. Skill players have more effect on the out come of fights and not as skilled players are less of a liability. This make the hardcore players happy because they feel like they carried the team while the casual isn't banging his head against the wall over and over again and resort to buying runs for the rest of his mmo days.


In a way the fights should be more like Ultima HM but with more variety of mechanics rather than your basic tank swap, in n out dodging, etc.

[Verius_Nox]

Titan is "harder" than most things after him. Not supposed to, but the netcode makes him be. There's a reason all those threads about him, and not Caduceus, ADS, Garuda, or even Twintania.





That's enough internet for today.

Less forgiving doesn't make him more difficult. I find the fight incredibly easy compared to Twintania, which you won't see any complaints on the forums about because those people are stuck on Titan.

Counter gif:

[darkstarpoet1]

Titan is "harder" than most things after him. Not supposed to, but the netcode makes him be. There's a reason all those threads about him, and not Caduceus, ADS, Garuda, or even Twintania.

only because those that aren't skilled enough to beat titan haven't made it to the more difficult fights. once they get titan made easier they'll complain about ifrit so forth and so on. it will not stop until they put an easy button instant win button in game for some people. if titan hm is still too difficult for some people they really should learn to use more than 1 or 2 abilities.

[Rochetm]

I have seen people make it to Titan EX and still not have a clue how to play their class. Bads can still gear carried through most of the game. That doesn't make the argument wrong. These people stuck on Titan HM are going to get major shafted on titan EX.

I am very close to ending my sub. I nearly need last week but decided to give it a little longer but the issue is still there. People can't do titan which means I cannot progress. Being forced to choose between fun people and people that never make any mistakes is not why I play MMOs... and not why most play them. THey want to play with friends they make online and friends/family from real life. Titan HM makes that hard, Titan EX makes it impossible.

[hallena]

I could give a rat's butt what the hardcore gamers {btw only 5% of your player base} think.

It's funny because nobody give a rat's butt about people who don't have the braincells required to either get out of brown circles or memorize bosses rotation.
You're the reason why people now use casual as an insult. Unless you're affected by SE's crappy netcode and lag, You need to git gud. stay mad