SCH vs WHM

[Jyoeru]

SCH/SCH > WHM/SCH >>>> WHM/WHM

Whispering stacks. Fey illumination can be used in succession for 40 full seconds. Fey covenant, one of the biggest buffs I see ignored on these forums quite frequently, times 2 for 40 full seconds of magic resistance. Four healers, two bot raid healers. 6 lustrates or 4 lustrates and 2 soils. Improved virus x2. SCH efficiency greatly exceeds WHM efficiency, freeing up BRD manapool to be used strictly for increasing SMN and BLM DPS. Lustrate >> benediction (way too long of a CD). Two healers that can use preemptive shielding on the entire raid and the tanks >>>>>>>> two healers who can use crappy regen from medica 2 (less than rous'd whispering) and regen/stoneskin on a tank where stoneskin doesn't stack and consumes too much MP most of the time to justify the cast.

Have too much healing? One SCH can use a DPS improving pet. DoTs > direct damage that WHM offers.

Only reason I'd ever want a WHM is for holy spam on fights where it doesn't even matter.

I am going to level a sch because I have nothing else to do, really. And because I want in on this gravy train while it lasts. Besides, might as well collect the healers like pokemon. But do note that most people do not know how to play a SCH. I can tell based on how you guys talk, and how most SCHs heal, and how good SCH compare to bad ones. Maybe SCH is a bit more complicated to play? Either way, if most people don't know how to do it, I'd rather not run with their half-arsed SCH.

It's a simple numbers game. The healing throughput with no GCD on Embrace, instant lustrate plus the normal SCH heals vs. the casting time from a WHMs single target heals (minus benediction which I don't consider an actual tool in our toolbox for healing throughput). It's more HPS on a single target. Also both Embrace and lustrate can be cast on the run while the adlo shield is up.

Mind you, this is not a "SCH is better than WHM"- statement above. Just explaining why SCH is the more powerful single target healer.

Sure you can Cure II and swiftcast Cure II to try to match it but it still won't be as sustainable as a SCH's HPS. Also MP wise.

If we're being honest here, I will say that what I read about class design was that SE intended healing to be largely ATB type response (not literally, but more in the sense that damage comes in and you have enough time to plan and execute your heal). I'd say this was true up to about Garuda EX (and I am guessing coil before then, but I don't have enough experience.

In saying that, I am absolutely frustrated with how laggy our heals are. All of our main heals take 2.xx seconds, and we should be using cure I as a mender to proc free cure to proc overcure. But the way they have it designed now, it feels like WHMs are punished compared to the passive healing and faster healing a (good) SCH can do.

I concede my points earlier. Either way, I will level a SCH so I am able to heal all the things.

***reverse posting because "reached limit for day"***

The difference between SCH and WHM in one a nutshell is that SCH is a proactive healer and WHM a reactive healer.
If you play your SCH by reaction to what's happening you are doing it wrong and will get into trouble and fall behind in healing. You should also not judge at a SCH partner like you would another WHM. SCH are there to help make a WHMS life, reacting so stuff, easier. IE, give a buffer so the tank doesn't drop to 10hp but stay a bit more stable.
If shit hits the fan on a lot of people then a WHM shines - they also shine if there are huge non constant spikes incoming. A sch partner shines in constant damage on the tank and by keeping a situation stable. (or spot healing dps)
A lot of the times crits can totally ruin a WHM's day because there is nada you can react to if your target is dead.


That is the reason I will always stand for my opinion that whm/sch is better than any other combo.

In terms of what is more difficult to play: I think both jobs have their challenges to really play at the top of your game but WHM is a tiny bit more forgiving when it comes to not knowing an encounter. As a SCH you not only have to manage all the different skills you have and make them work together (debuffs, pet, heals, mitigation) you also need to know what is going to happen to choose your tool beforehand wisely. WHM has to be careful with MP and enmity management but you still only mostly react to what's happening. There are obviously encounters where knowing a fight will still help a WHM (ie stoneskinning for Deathsentence, precasting Aoes etc etc) but it is more forgiving if you make a mistake then it is for a SCH throughout a while encounter duration.

Only my personal opinion though

Well, you're exactly the kind of person I like to debate. Most people cannot get me to change my mind or concede my point of view. You were logical and didn't flare up and flame me for having a different view, but rather took time to offer meaningful and logical points to consider.

I will advise one edit: it's not completely fair to label a WHM a reactive healer. Sure, for a lot of stuff, this point is completely true. BUT--stone skin is a proactive heal (if used right; think WOW disc priest, but a really crappy version of that bubble). Additionally, fights like Titan HM (probably EX and others) and like the Garuda double wheel require proactive healing mentality. If you, as a WHM, are not predicting certain types of damage, you're doing it wrong. Think: Titan tumults.

Your point is probably more that a SCH is 70/30 pro/reactive healing, vs. the opposite for a WHM. Is that fair to say?

[Sebazy]

I've got near enough the best white mage gear available in game whilst my sch is full ilvl 90 but missing the Allagan book and an earring. Kyomih is right on the money, in terms of raw hp throughput, a sch can put a massive amount of healing on a single target very efficiently with just a couple of macros. On the flip side of course, whilst a sch can indeed achieve excellent AE healing with Rouse>WD, it's still a pig to use compared to Medica I/II. the range is awful, it can be sluggish to cast and unlike Cure III, it's neither targetable nor recastable if you miss.

Long story short, both jobs are entirely viable for any content this game currently has to offer and hence this thread is somewhat pointless.

[Sanguisio]

I will definitely agree with you there.
And that is a definite difference, schs have to be proactive

[Dalavon]

They are designed to work TOGETHER. Take AOE on Titan. Succor + Medica 2 = full raid with hots. Know why? SCH mitigation keeps everyone from taking the full damage, medica tops them off, hots finish.

Bam. Stop these ridiculous posts. Everyone on FF complains to much.

[Kyomih]

snip

The difference between SCH and WHM in one a nutshell is that SCH is a proactive healer and WHM a reactive healer.
If you play your SCH by reaction to what's happening you are doing it wrong and will get into trouble and fall behind in healing. You should also not judge at a SCH partner like you would another WHM. SCH are there to help make a WHMS life, reacting so stuff, easier. IE, give a buffer so the tank doesn't drop to 10hp but stay a bit more stable.
If shit hits the fan on a lot of people then a WHM shines - they also shine if there are huge non constant spikes incoming. A sch partner shines in constant damage on the tank and by keeping a situation stable. (or spot healing dps)
A lot of the times crits can totally ruin a WHM's day because there is nada you can react to if your target is dead.


That is the reason I will always stand for my opinion that whm/sch is better than any other combo.

In terms of what is more difficult to play: I think both jobs have their challenges to really play at the top of your game but WHM is a tiny bit more forgiving when it comes to not knowing an encounter. As a SCH you not only have to manage all the different skills you have and make them work together (debuffs, pet, heals, mitigation) you also need to know what is going to happen to choose your tool beforehand wisely. WHM has to be careful with MP and enmity management but you still only mostly react to what's happening. There are obviously encounters where knowing a fight will still help a WHM (ie stoneskinning for Deathsentence, precasting Aoes etc etc) but it is more forgiving if you make a mistake then it is for a SCH throughout a while encounter duration.

Only my personal opinion though

[Kuroyasha]

they're both fine imo.

As a WHM I love when paired with Sch. They allow me to medica/med 2 less with their Fey>whispering dawn coming every minute or so. I dont have to worry about spot healing as much b/c of Eos. I can Stoneskin more and basically sit back and relax since a lot of sch like to show their might by doing everything at once with aoe heals etc .

As a whm i like when another whm appears. We SS alternatively on things, have two med 2s going and a regen on tanks so we can just do a little cure 1 here and there, but when we synergize and get every1 under med 2+tanks under regen it's pretty much gravy until a derp moment/big hit is coming. On big hit we dont worry and as much since we have SS up anyway and can easily heal big amounts.

As a SCH, I love when whm comes and provides medica on top of succor after WD is on cooldown. I love when they heal for a big amount on the tank and all i have to do is pop a adlo, or decide to throw a few dots after a sacred soil and adlo.

As a sch, i hate when a sch appears. We can get the job done, but wasting shields on succor makes it a booboo medica. And we don't need a booboo medica. 2 fairies? meh, id rather have the aoe big hp healer paired up with me than another eos/whispering dawn. Just my 2 cents.

[Kyomih]

I will advise one edit: it's not completely fair to label a WHM a reactive healer. Sure, for a lot of stuff, this point is completely true. BUT--stone skin is a proactive heal (if used right; think WOW disc priest, but a really crappy version of that bubble). Additionally, fights like Titan HM (probably EX and others) and like the Garuda double wheel require proactive healing mentality. If you, as a WHM, are not predicting certain types of damage, you're doing it wrong. Think: Titan tumults.

Your point is probably more that a SCH is 70/30 pro/reactive healing, vs. the opposite for a WHM. Is that fair to say?

That is the reason why I said "in a nutshell" and also even mentioned obvious encounter where it helps to know the fight as a WHM
As a SCH you have to use your migitations together with your healing and debuffs to make up for lack of big heals. That is the reason it's more forgiving for a WHM to make mistakes since our heals won't suffer from it while a SCH will lose out on efficiency if they fall behind in their healing/mitigating.

[UlricCraft]

~ Healing Ultima ~
I like having two WHM.
Medica II permanently up with 2 regens on the tank.
With lots and lots of aoe damage coupled with dodging and certain points where standing still for 3.5 seconds can interrupt spells, HoT = winner.

Cleric&Holy on plumes in Garuda EX.

"Regen isn't mitigation, regen useless if dead"
No tank ever tanks more than 118% hp damage. If they do. They're doing it wrong.

[Alkimi]

SCH/SCH > WHM/SCH >>>> WHM/WHM

Stuff...

Maybe you've just had bad WHMs. You talk about MP efficiency like it's an issue but the only time any of our BRDs ever use ballad is during the first set of divebombs in Twintania for like 20 seconds, where nobody is doing any DPS anyway.

[Ashira]

~ Healing Ultima ~
I like having two WHM.
Medica II permanently up with 2 regens on the tank.
With lots and lots of aoe damage coupled with dodging and certain points where standing still for 3.5 seconds can interrupt spells, HoT = winner.

Not bad reasons for having two WHM. I can see the upside, though personally; having Sacred Soil and Succor up to soak orb damage, I honestly don't know what I'd do without that mitigation. Keeping Succor up also saves people from dying to random stuff like Ifrit charges. I assume we're talking about entry level healing with PuG; as at i90 with a good group you can solo heal this as whatever.