One to Fifty, One Zone - Long OP

[Kiara]

Hi All,

Definitely an important topic that I hope Yoshida-san and the Dev Team notices.

Reading through all 32 pages (so far), it's clear this is a major dissatisfaction with many players.

As to "Why?" it was done this way, looking back on the game now, it clearly seems like they ran out of time and/or were also hoping to "re-use" assets as much as possible to save money and development time. The massive amount of copy & pasting is evident everywhere in The Black Shroud (seeing the same River Crossing, same Trees, same Shrubbery all over the place). You notice it in Thanalan and La Noscea as well.

What adds to the frustration and boredom of the environments is also the "re-use" of THE SAME MONSTERS as well. Here's one quick example:

How many Mushroom monsters (who look exactly alike) do we really need? We have:

* Forest Funguar (Rank 1)
* Faerie Funguar
* Fallgourd Funguar
* Fumbling Funguar
* Funguar
* Stumbling Funguar
* Queen Bolete
* Shrieker (Rank 50 - 54)

ALL IN THE SAME AREA! Huh?!

Do we really need 8 types of Mushrooms (that look exactly alike) to level and grind on, in the same area?

It's understandable that a development team re-uses some art assets (it's a classic RPG recurrence ("Red Enemy" "Blue Enemy" "Green Enemy")), but the above example just shows how badly Square was Copy & Pasting not only their Environments but the Enemies as well.

Someone thought this was a good idea to save time / get the game out, but as we can see from this thread, it was far too noticeable and a bad decision.

To be fair, there *are* some gorgeous "Landmarks" / Areas in the game, but they are too few and far between. If anyone wants to see some beautiful areas, check out Sorrel Haven (27, 38), for an absolutely GORGEOUS area that's different from the rest of The Black Shroud... that NO ONE goes to, or knows about, since it's completely out of the way.

Or "The Mirror" Lake area around Five Hangs. Unique and beautiful, and unusable due to Rank 99 Goblins.

Square also put in some more unique creatures like the Guivre model (also re-used as Banescale Guivre, Doomvoid Guivre, Fire Drake, Inferno Drake, etc.). Awesome creature... that is pretty much wasted because most versions of it are unbalanced for Rank 1 - 50). Morbol is a fun fight, but also wasted, being put into ~Rank 70 areas near Lynxpatch Pelt.

As others have said (and I sent an e-mail Week 2 to SE via Lodestone Customer Support), the lack of unique environments (and monsters) is just too depressing and needs to be addressed.

I remember Week 1, when I learned about Camp Bentbranch (Rank 1 area). I thought, "OK this is nice." Then a Local Leve (Crafting) sent me to Camp Nine Ivies and Camp Crimson Bark (basically Rank 50 areas). I snuck around and made it to both camps, only to be completely underwhelmed:

"They look EXACTLY like Camp Bentbranch, but smaller."

And, around those Highest Level Camps (since we're Rank 50 Cap), I'm greeted by... Dormouse (basically a Star Marmot, tiny rat creature), and Shrieker (another Mushroom creature that looks just like the Rank 1 Forest Funguar I've been fighting).

THAT was pretty depressing.

There are interesting places now in Mor Dhona with Ogres and Rainbow Basilisks, but they're not really suited to SP on (unbalanced). We definitely need to get our 3 core Nations' Areas cleaned up, adding more UNIQUE detail to make them stand out. I think the one area that really stands out from the blandness of the 3 major areas is:

* Cassiopeia Hollow

It's visually different and interesting, and really stands out from the rest of La Noscea. We need more distinct areas like that for our starter areas.

Here are some quick examples of what SE could do that would make the areas stand out more:

* The Black Shroud *

• Rank 1 - 10: Camp Bentbranch region (キャンプ・ベントプランチ) (same as it is now, but with less tunnels :P)
• Rank 11 - 20: Five Hangs region / Mirror Lake (鹿落五橋). Open it up more, but have a whole region be in and around a giant LAKE with Harbors, etc.
• Rank 21 - 30: Sorrel Haven (スカンボの安息所): It's a gorgeous area, with flowing Rivers and a GIANT MANA TREE! This is already in the game.
• Rank 21 - 30 (Alternate): The Tam Tara Deepcroft / Mun-Tuy Cellars (タムタラの墓所) (Dungeons). They're fine as is.

If they just directed us to these distinct areas and removed the Copy & Paste Clutter, that'd make for a far better experience than what we have now (with some beautifying, but overall it could work).


* La Noscea *

• Rank 1 - 10: Camp Bearded Rock (キャンプ・ビアデッドロック) region (as it is now).
• Rank 11 - 20: South Bloodshore BEACH (サウス・ブラッドショア). The lower level Beach area (expanded a bit more), would be a distinct, "ocean side" battle area, with a gorgeous view. It could be like a "Valkurm Dunes" area for XIV. There are quite a few Beach / Coastline areas that are currently too small and unused.
• Rank 21 - 30: Cassiopeia Hollow (浮海月の巌穴) - Unique and different as is, already.
• Rank 21 - 30 (Alternate): The Isles of Umbra (幻影諸島です) - If you've been to The Isles of Umbra, it's a BEAUTIFUL area, high above the lands, with cliffs and climbing areas and then the huge open view overlooking the oceans. If they made this area usable for this rank, that'd give a unique experience as well.

Remove the extra Copy & Paste Clutter of La Noscea and give us those areas above, expanded, and that's another area that SE can deliver to us without too much rework.


* Thanalan *

• Rank 1 - 10: Camp Black Brush (ブラックブラッシュ). It's fine as is, for a basic Desert Starter area.
• Rank 11 - 20: Nanawa Mines (ナナワ銀山) - It's a Mining Dungeon area. It's different from the outside areas and they can keep their work on this.
• Rank 11 - 20: The Footfalls (Deep Canyon Area) (足跡の谷) - If anyone's been to The Footfalls (it's found via the Lower Canyon area going to The Docks (to get to the Ferry from Limsa -> Ul'dah)), it's a deep Canyon area, with Tall, Mountainous Walls, and Ravines. If they developed this area out more, added some cool Nausicaa Overgrown Spore Foliage and made THAT the Rank 20 Camp, that'd stand out far more than Drybone.
• Rank 21 - 30: Burnt Lizard Creek (with MORE of the Temple Architecture) (リザードクリーク): If anyone's seen the Hidden Temple in a cave in Burnt Lizard Creek, it's BEAUTIFUL and completely unused. (>_>) If they developed out more of this hidden Temple Architecture and added it to the area around Burnt Lizard Creek and maybe added something like an Active VOLCANO with Flowing Lava, that'd be a great Rank 30 area that'd be visually distinct.

Again, just some quick examples, but with changes like the above (and removing the extra Copy & Pasted generic areas inbetween), we'd HAVE UNIQUE, INTERESTING AREAS TO LEVEL UP IN.

Instead it was as if someone on the old team decided, "Let's save those unique areas for later patches / level cap raise. We can get away with Copy & Pasting the same starter textures and geometry all over the 3 regions and it'll be fine."

Here's to hoping we get some changes with the coming 7th Umbral Age that was hinted at on Lodestone ("Storm Over Gridania"), and that SE listens to our pleas.

[Mack]

Kiara good post and I agree Casseiopia is nice to look at as well as my favorite zone in the game would probably be Mistbeard Cove, it has that piraty look and mystery (closed doors there looks like they are hiding something) and the awesome music. We need more creativity like that. OH and forgot to add that that is the only zone I have seen flans in which is so nice to be honest, really feels like a Final Fantasy zone instead of just another zone.

[Rowyne]

Here are some quick examples of what SE could do that would make the areas stand out more:

Kiara, this is a brilliant post! One that everyone should definitely read. It's obvious that you've been aware of this issue for a while, and you have some great ideas of how to remedy it.

[Kiara]

Kiara, this is a brilliant post! One that everyone should definitely read. It's obvious that you've been aware of this issue for a while, and you have some great ideas of how to remedy it.

Hi Rowyne,

You're too kind. I just hope SE reads this thread and gets some ideas out of it.

[Frisque]

Here are some quick examples of what SE could do that would make the areas stand out more:

* The Black Shroud *

• Rank 1 - 10: Camp Bentbranch region (same as it is now, but with less tunnels :P)
• Rank 11 - 20: Five Hangs region / Mirror Lake. Open it up more, but have a whole region be in and around a giant LAKE with Harbors, etc.
• Rank 21 - 30: Sorrel Haven: It's a gorgeous area, with flowing Rivers and a GIANT MANA TREE! This is already in the game.
• Rank 21 - 30 (Alternate): The Tam Tara Deepcroft / Mun-Tuy Cellars (Dungeons). They're fine as is.

If they just directed us to these distinct areas and removed the Copy & Paste Clutter, that'd make for a far better experience than what we have now (with some beautifying, but overall it could work).


* La Noscea *

• Rank 1 - 10: Camp Bearded Rock region (as it is now).
• Rank 11 - 20: South Bloodshore BEACH. The lower level Beach area (expanded a bit more), would be a distinct, "ocean side" battle area, with a gorgeous view. It could be like a "Valkurm Dunes" area for XIV. There are quite a few Beach / Coastline areas that are currently too small and unused.
• Rank 21 - 30: Cassiopeia Hollow - Unique and different as is, already.
• Rank 21 - 30 (Alternate): The Isles of Umbra - If you've been to The Isles of Umbra, it's a BEAUTIFUL area, high above the lands, with cliffs and climbing areas and then the huge open view overlooking the oceans. If they made this area usable for this rank, that'd give a unique experience as well.

Remove the extra Copy & Paste Clutter of La Noscea and give us those areas above, expanded, and that's another area that SE can deliver to us without too much rework.


* Thanalan *

• Rank 1 - 10: Camp Black Brush. It's fine as is, for a basic Desert Starter area.
• Rank 11 - 20: Nanawa Mines - It's a Mining Dungeon area. It's different from the outside areas and they can keep their work on this.
• Rank 11 - 20: The Footfalls (Deep Canyon Area) - If anyone's been to The Footfalls (it's found via the Lower Canyon area going to The Docks (to get to the Ferry from Limsa -> Ul'dah)), it's a deep Canyon area, with Tall, Mountainous Walls, and Ravines. If they developed this area out more, added some cool Nausicaa Overgrown Spore Foliage and made THAT the Rank 20 Camp, that'd stand out far more than Drybone.
• Rank 21 - 30: Burnt Lizard Creek (with MORE of the Temple Architecture): If anyone's seen the Hidden Temple in a cave in Burnt Lizard Creek, it's BEAUTIFUL and completely unused. (>_>) If they developed out more of this hidden Temple Architecture and added it to the area around Burnt Lizard Creek and maybe added something like an Active VOLCANO with Flowing Lava, that'd be a great Rank 30 area that'd be visually distinct.

Again, just some quick examples, but with changes like the above (and removing the extra Copy & Pasted generic areas inbetween), we'd HAVE UNIQUE, INTERESTING AREAS TO LEVEL UP IN.

Instead it was as if someone on the old team decided, "Let's save those unique areas for later patches / level cap raise. We can get away with Copy & Pasting the same starter textures and geometry all over the 3 regions and it'll be fine."

Here's to hoping we get some changes with the coming 7th Umbral Age that was hinted at on Lodestone ("Storm Over Gridania"), and that SE listens to our pleas.

QFT
/10 char

[Rentahamster]

Hi All,

Definitely an important topic that I hope Yoshida-san and the Dev Team notices.

Reading through all 32 pages (so far), it's clear this is a major dissatisfaction with many players.
Instead it was as if someone on the old team decided, "Let's save those unique areas for later patches / level cap raise. We can get away with Copy & Pasting the same starter textures and geometry all over the 3 regions and it'll be fine."

..

Here's to hoping we get some changes with the coming 7th Umbral Age that was hinted at on Lodestone ("Storm Over Gridania"), and that SE listens to our pleas.

Well said. Looking at the pre-release videos, it seems that environmental variety was something they aimed for, but for whatever reason, it didn't materialize as planned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIO2gS5ZeLI

"We designed vistas of contrasting altitudes and carefully placed light sources to prevent scenery from becoming repetitive"

You're spot on with the comments about the lack of monster variety, too. I made similar remarks in the monster suggestion thread.

I want to see more visual variety in other mobs too.

The pigs all look the same, the gnats all look the same, the goats all look the same. The Cockatrices look just like Dodos, except for a few color palette swaps. It contributes to the blandness that a lot of the players are complaining about.

I know you guys have that dynamic polygon system or whatever it was that you guys showed how the engine was capable of great variety using the same models. Well, USE it. Add changes to the mobs within each family. Make the level 40 goats I'm fighting in Thanalan look different than the level 20 goats I fought in La Noscea. Make the imps in one region at least looks a little different from the ones another region, etc etc.

It's sad how the monster variety didn't pan out like they hoped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEybd106bBU


This next video in particular shows the ability of the engine to create many varied designs quickly, but for some reason that hasn't been the case in reality, either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc0ilSksWBQ

One would think that slight visual modifications for the monsters using this technology would be easy to do...