Summoner got destroyed this patch

[Kevee]

I feel like I should ask you this Kevee, before you use up all your daily posts replying to nonsense. :P What do you think about Summoner's DPS standings with the other classes once 2.1 hits? Below Monk I'm sure because they're getting buffed to be even broken than SMN was before this patch. But do you think Dragoons will surpass us in ST as well? What about BLM's now? (I know that some of these vary a lot depending on encounter but I would love just a general opinion from you. since I hold your Summoner posts/opinions pretty highly)

It is not going to be something where we're useless. We'll still be the top DPS on, say, turn 5, because that fight is so tuned for us. All these people doomsaying either never paid attention to maximize their class, or just think "nerf=useless."

If someone(Kalandros) had read my other posts, I said that SMN could have used some numbers adjusted down--About as much as we're losing from not having Thunder(10%), but the fact is they're doing it wrong. It's making the class have less of a skill cap, and more boring. I don't need to cast Ruin more--I do it enough already. It's boring.

Managing timers and DoTs is why I fell in love with SMN. I love how, depending on transitions, you use your judgement to maximize DPS based on timers. The removal of Thunder is going to limit that, and while I still won't be playing any other class(or leaving the game), I did bump my 3 month subscription down to 1 month. I'll still be playing SMN, and subscribing, but if it CONTINUES in this pattern I will not.

My rankings would be MNK > BLM(depending on RNG) >(Slightly) BLM=DRG=SMN > BRD.
On live, it's currently SMN > MNK=BLM(RNG) > BLM > DRG > BRD.
As you can see, it's a huge shift, and in my opinion it is more balanced(but with MNK being too strong), but the way they went about it is wrong.

I don't get the slightly, care to elaborate?

What do you think about....sayyyy Turns 1,2, and 4?

Slightly greater than, there was no way to put that in neat. Good BLM RNG doesn't add THAT much DPS, unless it's OBSCENELY good, but it would be noticeable over those lower than it.

Turn 1 we'll still be winners. Multi-Dotting is what we can still do, Turn 2 and 4 we'll lose out a lot compared to live. On those, it would be better just to bring a BLM.

I understand you somewhat. If the DPS are the same/only slightly different why would you bring the person with the ramp up over the instant burst that deals with most mechanics better. right?

See, speaking specifically about T5--You would bring a SMN with the entire encounter timer to mind, and you would bring a BLM if you wanted to complete the mechanics. So a SMN would be better for a farm/geared group, and a BLM would be better for a group progressing/not as geared.

A DPS drop isn't enough to ruin our viability, even if its a big one. The change in the boots is much worse.

This is something I want to post against.
The actual changing of the boots isn't bad--We'll lose, maybe, .5% DPS. That's right, POINT FIVE PERCENT DPS.
It's the precedent it sets that is scary.
Why does it value GUARANTEED ITEMS over RNG drops?
Why is it changing an ACCURACY piece that ALL classes need?
Why is it changing a piece of gear that TWO jobs have access to, when one of the jobs has the EXACT same piece only THEY have access to?
All of these questions were answered, and not in a good way.

[Stupified]

You all aren't helping anything. You think my post is garbage because you want to stay optimistic about playing SMN as your main. Like Keevee said, nothing to test, we just lost an important DOT and our
main debuff got worse. Its a Nerf, period. And I didn't mean to say SMN was a useless class, just not worth using over BLM now in endgame (ie. Coil) IMHO. Where is the SMN usefullness check? BLM is already best DPS in Turn 4 where you would think SMN's great AOE would prosper. BLM is also neck and neck in T2 with SMN as well. And T5 SMN might be overall better DPS, but BLM is still more useful
for the conflag burst DPS check which is the most difficult part of T5. SMN prob still best for T1 cause there is 2 snakes to DOT, wow. My intentions were not to be overdramatic about SMN nerf, just saying that BLM is a more viable endgame caster class, maybe even before patch, but definitely after. I'll still use my SMN for duty finder dungeons and thats about it.

[Sylari]

The thing I find most ridiculous about the removal of Thunder is that SCH still gets access to Aero.

Aero is still listed as a SMN skill in the client, maybe they took away thunder because giving us aero is one of those undocumented bug fixes.

Eh, I can dream.

Can't you act a bit more civil?

You're the one who ran in here screaming about how people need to "learn2play". You still haven't explained what exactly is 'l2p' about a change that makes the class simpler.

[Nemhy]

My rankings would be MNK > BLM(depending on RNG) >(Slightly) BLM=DRG=SMN > BRD.

I don't get the slightly, care to elaborate? Yea I hear you...it really dumbs the class down with having to keep all the dots up. If you slip up once you either lost a DoT of screwed the duration timers up. Have you seen what they did with Virus and Rain of Death? This plus the Thunder change really shows that they want to "dumb down" the combat even more than it already was. (compared to the previous FF14 IMO. latest patch before it went down of course). Not only do we have a whole lack of timer to worry about. But there are no more Virus Rotations, no more Brd weaving in RoD...it's become a 1 2 3 4 game unless you play Dragoon or Monk. Which isn't right or fair to the people who picked Summoner because it was a bit more complex to play with.

What do you think about....sayyyy Turns 1,2, and 4?

[PriyaJugulataris]

I feel like I should ask you this Kevee, before you use up all your daily posts replying to nonsense. :P What do you think about Summoner's DPS standings with the other classes once 2.1 hits? Below Monk I'm sure because they're getting buffed to be even broken than SMN was before this patch. But do you think Dragoons will surpass us in ST as well? What about BLM's now? (I know that some of these vary a lot depending on encounter but I would love just a general opinion from you. since I hold your Summoner posts/opinions pretty highly)

He replied to this question in another thread
Monk > BM> Dragoon/Summoner> Bard

[Nemhy]

*post*

I understand you somewhat. If the DPS are the same/only slightly different why would you bring the person with the ramp up over the instant burst that deals with most mechanics better. right?

[jisatsu4]

As a SMN with Twintania down and just missing the ilv95 book.

I don't care about this "nerf", I'll adapt and adjust.
Learn2Play.

Yeah I have T5 down too. Even on that fight where I get to multi dot everything and not lose DPS to going into conflags and fireballs our BLM is still on top of the DPS. So yeah the thunder nerf is huge. There is literally no reason to play SMN when BLM does the ranged caster role better in every way.

[Stupified]

Exactly. As of right now the Endgame obstacles for all classes involve: Coordination, Communication, Movement, Quick Reflex, Strategy, Knowing and efficiently using your class and execution.

But then there are obstacles, certainly NOT exclusive to certain classes, but are best accomplished by certain classes. And as of right now SMN is best/most useful for almost none (maybe aoe). The best thing we had going for us is that maybe we were long-run better dmg then BLM (if you chose to bring a mage), but now SMN is roughly even with long-term BLM damage. Might as well just bring a BLM now since they are at least most useful for all the burst DPS checks.

I also don't mind if all melee dps is overall better then ALL mage dmg as it is more difficult being in melee rng. But most raid groups will still use mages, they will all just be BLM as of now.

[Wolfenkritter]

SMN was already on the low end of single target DPS

Far from it. They're considered the most powerful ranged single target DPS.

Replacing Thunder with Blizzard 2 is an absolute Joke

Yeah it is, and it adds very little to the class. Tri-Disaster has higher damage, a greater duration and is ranged.

Having us have our pets on full "Sic" or be forced to control ALL pet actions

Thats when the Pet is set to Obey and Steady. If the pet is set to Obey and Guard it should use its auto-attack as it always did. As said earlier in the thread.

Most endgame content most difficulty fights are single target checks and burst checks, both of which SMN were weak before

A SMN can handle all of Coil just fine. They have high single target DPS and bring strong utility with Virus, Eye for an Eye and to a lesser extent, Resurrection. A DPS drop isn't enough to ruin our viability, even if its a big one. The change in the boots is much worse.

[Wolfenkritter]

This is something I want to post against.
The actual changing of the boots isn't bad--We'll lose, maybe, .5% DPS. That's right, POINT FIVE PERCENT DPS.
It's the precedent it sets that is scary.
Why does it value GUARANTEED ITEMS over RNG drops?
Why is it changing an ACCURACY piece that ALL classes need?
Why is it changing a piece of gear that TWO jobs have access to, when one of the jobs has the EXACT same piece only THEY have access to?
All of these questions were answered, and not in a good way.

That was the point I wanted to make, but 1000 char limit got in the way, so I couldn't elaborate.

Garuda-Egi has a high accuracy requirement. Changing the boots makes reaching it a pain.