Temporary HP Tank

[ZenBear]

Up the wazoo? WAR has Storm's Path, Bloodbath, and Inner Beast. That's the extent of your "wazoo". 3 self-healing abilities, 2 of which are so weak that they're a job, do not define a tank as a "self-healing" tank. The only reason that people think that WAR is or ever *was* a self-healing tank is because Inner Beast flashes up a big, attention grabbing number even if that number is laughable in comparison to incoming damage.

Just because the abilities are weak doesn't mean they aren't key to the identity of the class. And yes, compared to any other class and PLD/GLA in particular who have 0 (Cure and Bloodbath dont count, being cross-class), 3 is "up the wazoo." Now stop arguing semantics.

As Exstal has said, it's an irrelevant argument now that the 2.1 changes have been confirmed. This debate has very little to do with my original topic anyway.

[Kitru]

Just because the abilities are weak doesn't mean they aren't key to the identity of the class.

Except that, if this were true, people wouldn't be complaining about the WAR having an identity crisis because the number of self heals that a WAR has available is actually the same. If you want to talk about *usable* self-heals, that number is actually going up because, right now, there's no reason to use Storm's Path because it's both expensive and provides laughable self healing.

The amount that certain abilities actual impact performance is *exactly* what makes them key to the class's *actual* identity (as opposed to imposed identity applied based upon perception). The people that think that WAR is defined by self-healing only believe that because Inner Beast throws up a big self-heal number. If all that the class had was Bloodbath and Storm's Path, no one would say *anything* about WAR being a self-healing tank. It's the big number that Inner Beast throws up *alone* that makes people think that WAR is a self-healing tank, and, if you've actually looked at how much it really contributes, you'd realize that Inner Beast (in its current implementation) *isn't* actually key to the WAR playstyle.

WAR is, and always has been, defined by Wrath, not self-healing. It isn't bad implementation of the concept of a self-healing tank that is being fixed. They're addressing the fact that the wrong mitigation mechanic (self healing) was chosen to be placed upon the primary tool used as part of the playstyle mechanic (Wrath) that actually defines the class.

Calling a WAR a self-healing tank is like talking about a person's sequined shoes when asked to describe them: yes, it *does* describe their appearance in some way, but it completely misses the big picture of what you're actually supposed to be describing because you're so focused upon a tiny fragment that drew your attention.

This debate has very little to do with my original topic anyway.

I already explained exactly why your original idea was bad and what would need to be done to make it actually work. Keep in mind that you did actually say, in your original post, that you think that 2.1 is "on the verge of dangerously homogenizing WAR/PLD" so you opened it up for discussion. Anyone that has actually played the two classes or looked at anything concerning the changes beyond the terms "damage reduction" and "self healing" would realize that the two tanks are *still* going to play completely differently. WAR and PLD aren't being homogenized; the only reason you'd believe that is if you think that a class is defined by arbitrary attributes like damage type instead of the actual mechanics of the class: having a MNK deal slashing damage wouldn't do anything more to change its identity than what 2.1 is doing to WAR (except that WAR is also getting some much needed buffs to its *abysmal* CD suite, which, unless you think that a terrible CD suite is part of the WAR identity, is purely a balance change).

[ZenBear]

1. right now, there's no reason to use Storm's Path because it's both expensive and provides laughable self healing.

2. The people that think that WAR is defined by self-healing only believe that because Inner Beast throws up a big self-heal number. If all that the class had was Bloodbath and Storm's Path, no one would say *anything* about WAR being a self-healing tank. It's the big number that Inner Beast throws up *alone* that makes people think that WAR is a self-healing tank, and, if you've actually looked at how much it really contributes, you'd realize that Inner Beast (in its current implementation) *isn't* actually key to the WAR playstyle.

WAR is, and always has been, defined by Wrath, not self-healing. It isn't bad implementation of the concept of a self-healing tank that is being fixed. They're addressing the fact that the wrong mitigation mechanic (self healing) was chosen to be placed upon the primary tool used as part of the playstyle mechanic (Wrath) that actually defines the class.

3. I already explained exactly why your original idea was bad and what would need to be done to make it actually work.

4. 2.1 is "on the verge of dangerously homogenizing WAR/PLD" so you opened it up for discussion. Anyone that has actually played the two classes or looked at anything concerning the changes beyond the terms "damage reduction" and "self healing" would realize that the two tanks are *still* going to play completely differently.

Haha, wow... you are way too worked up about this.

1. You claim that *usable* and *actual* identity defines the class; I disagree. The developers define the class because it's their creation. Part of that creation (an integral part) was self-healing, as is evident by the fact that MRD/WAR is the only class with self-only healing. Yes, Wrath is the defining mechanic between MRD and WAR. Still doesn't change the fact that MRD is part of WAR and therefore everything that defines MRD also defines WAR, ableit only partly so. On top of that, as I said, Wrath boosts 2 things: max hp, and healing. Both synergize with a "self-healing soak tank." You can deny it all you want, you'll still be wrong.

2. I'm one of these people you're talking about and I'm telling you you are wrong. It is the combination of Bloodbath, Storm's Path, Inner Beast and the +healing on Wrath stacks that make the WAR a self-healer. Don't try to tell me what I think, if you disagree with me then you are wrong.

3. Way to be insulting. Does it make you feel better to put me down? I bet it does.

4. Correct, I did mention it in passing. You are right, the classes are still very different. I admit my initial comment you are quoting was an exaggeration.

Seriously though, you need to calm down. Agree to disagree and move on with your life.