Temporary HP Tank

[ZenBear]

I mentioned this once before as a possible change to the Warrior self-healing mechanic as a way to relieve some of the healer stress of seeing a Warrior's health drop like a rock after every big hit. The premise is that by having Warriors build "shields" of temporary HP with their self-heal abilities allows for a more proactive and preemptive playstyle. Instead of taking a big hit that drops you to 25% health and popping Inner Beast to heal back up while the White Mage frantically casts their biggest cures, the Warrior can pop Inner Beast before the attack to generate their shield which will soak up most of the damage and leave you at 75-50% hp.

My suggestion received a largely negative response without any explanation of why other than a single reference to Death Knights from WoW. I have no experience with DK so I don't know what they were like or why their form of temp hp generation was over/underpowered or what.

Does anybody agree that this could be a good idea? It's never going to happen, SqEnix has already decided how WARs work (though 2.1 seems on the verge of dangerously homogenizing WAR/PLD), but I still think it's a good idea. If you disagree, please explain why in greater detail than "No, you're an idiot."

[ZenBear]

le bump. so stupid that mobile site doesn't have edit function... >.>

[Eightbit]

Two ways for this to work. One, the flat rate shield. Where every inner beast gives so much damage reduction upon use, which is exactly what SE is doing. Two the excess hp shield. Where any over heal from an inner beast becomes that shield, so that you use inner beast at full health and if it would give you 1k hp, it gives you a stone skin for 1k. That becomes useless pretty fast. First, you will never be sitting with banked hp for long, and in harder hitting fights it may never happen. It scales very poorly with progression, as in it will only scale when you improve not when your enemies do. Second, you will have to be 100% synchronized with your healer. You use IB too soon and suddenly a heal is wasted on top of not having that extra shield. Healers would also have to have rough ideas of how much of that shield you have banked at any given time to know how much to be ready to heal you for.

In short I just don't think it would work very well, and the given changes are by far better.

[Zoomie]

the given changes are by far better.

Basically this ^

Say you're tanking Titan, something everyone has to do at some point.

You use IB after land slide and Titan auto's you twice for 900 then Mountain Busters for 4000. With your IB idea you would at most have a shield for something like 1000 damage. So you still take 4800 damage because Titans first auto ate nearly the entire shield.

Now you have the 2.1 IB. You pop it and suddenly those 900's are 720's and that 4000 is a 3200 savings you from 1160 damage. This differency will only get larger as content scales.

[Paikis]

Basically this ^

Say you're tanking Titan, something everyone has to do at some point.

You use IB after land slide and Titan auto's you twice for 900 then Mountain Busters for 4000. With your IB idea you would at most have a shield for something like 1000 damage. So you still take 4800 damage because Titans first auto ate nearly the entire shield.

Now you have the 2.1 IB. You pop it and suddenly those 900's are 720's and that 4000 is a 3200 savings you from 1160 damage. This differency will only get larger as content scales.

Except my Inner Beasts are much larger than 1k. The change is a nerf on all content except turn 4 and 5. WAR gets really good with gear. People need to stop gearing and playing like a Paladin. Yoshi was right, most WARs need some L2P.

[ZenBear]

Two the excess hp shield. Where any over heal from an inner beast becomes that shield, so that you use inner beast at full health and if it would give you 1k hp, it gives you a stone skin for 1k. That becomes useless pretty fast. First, you will never be sitting with banked hp for long, and in harder hitting fights it may never happen.

You misunderstand. What I'm talking about replaces all self-healing with shield generation. Using IB does not recover HP and is not affected by current HP. The shield generates independently, so you don't need to be at max health.

Obviously I don't have a complete picture of how this would work. I don't know if perhaps a buff or nerf to potency would be needed or what. I'm not proposing this option as a replacement to the current changes; as I said, my idea will never be implemented. I'm just throwing it out there to discuss for the giggly shits.

[Eightbit]

Except my Inner Beasts are much larger than 1k. The change is a nerf on all content except turn 4 and 5. WAR gets really good with gear. People need to stop gearing and playing like a Paladin. Yoshi was right, most WARs need some L2P.

It is a nerf only when the warrior is over geared for the content. Maybe at much lower levels, I guess, but I'd still say any level 50 dungeon paladin is better until over gearing it. To design around over gearing is a horrible idea. Your inner beasts have a cap based off your gear. Hypothetically, with both tanks having infinite hp and both in the same gear set, and your IB heals for 5k (far beyond what is possible). Boss hits you for 20 damage, paladin gets hit for 16, IB over heals you. Boss hits for 20,000 and you heal back 5k for a total of 15k damage, paladin takes 16k. Almost on par suddenly, now time to truly go over the top. Boss hits for 20 million, you heal for 5k for a total damage of 19,995,000, and paladin takes 16 million damage. Yes that is really extreme but that is the point.When a warrior cannot heal back more than 20% of the damage taken he is behind paladin.

Sorry warrior currently is just behind paladin mathematically. There is no magic play style or tricks to make up for that.

You misunderstand. What I'm talking about replaces all self-healing with shield generation. Using IB does not recover HP and is not affected by current HP. The shield generates independently, so you don't need to be at max health.

Obviously I don't have a complete picture of how this would work. I don't know if perhaps a buff or nerf to potency would be needed or what. I'm not proposing this option as a replacement to the current changes; as I said, my idea will never be implemented. I'm just throwing it out there to discuss for the giggly shits.

I think I follow. So instead of healing hp, it generates a shield say based off the damage done instead? If so, it still runs into the flaw that a flat percent mitigated is better in the long run over anything that is based of a fixed out put number.

[Exstal]

It is a nerf only when the warrior is over geared for the content. Maybe at much lower levels, I guess, but I'd still say any level 50 dungeon paladin is better until over gearing it. To design around over gearing is a horrible idea. Your inner beasts have a cap based off your gear. Hypothetically, with both tanks having infinite hp and both in the same gear set, and your IB heals for 5k (far beyond what is possible). Boss hits you for 20 damage, paladin gets hit for 16, IB over heals you. Boss hits for 20,000 and you heal back 5k for a total of 15k damage, paladin takes 16k. Almost on par suddenly, now time to truly go over the top. Boss hits for 20 million, you heal for 5k for a total damage of 19,995,000, and paladin takes 16 million damage. Yes that is really extreme but that is the point.When a warrior cannot heal back more than 20% of the damage taken he is behind paladin.

Sorry warrior currently is just behind paladin mathematically. There is no magic play style or tricks to make up for that.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why Warrior is getting a buff and Yoshi doesn't tell you to L2P.

[ZenBear]

I think I follow. So instead of healing hp, it generates a shield say based off the damage done instead? If so, it still runs into the flaw that a flat percent mitigated is better in the long run over anything that is based of a fixed out put number.

Correct, and yes to an extent percent mitigation is better than fixed soak, but conceptually that is the difference between PLD and WAR. Paladins is the mitigation tank, Warrior is the soak tank. That's why I'm a bit concerned with the 2.1 changes adding so much mitigation to the Warrior.

[Paikis]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why Warrior is getting a buff and Yoshi doesn't tell you to L2P.

Actually Yoshi did say L2P, and he never retracted that statement, he merely said that PLD was too good and WAR was being bought up to that level.