2.1 Steel Cyclone, Not Enough

[civilpaw]

The problem with any use of Wrath, is it is still weighted against IB. Unless you truly have a ridiculous threat lead, and can afford ST rotation for Wrath gain to IB, then it is all moot in the end. Having 5 Wrath would mean IB is still the clear answer for 20% DR on meaningful content (stuff that hits hard, aka raiding). We floated an idea of proc from Overpower to make a free SC. It seemed the most feasible for keeping it similar to how it is now, and just adding some enmity bonus on it. I'd rather see it used in place of IB, as a go to AoE rotation for DR % and threat.

Not saying your idea is bad, it is still better then what they currently have planned, but to make SC apart of our normal rotation it just needs some oomf to it.

Didnt read every post, but the proc idea is kinda nice. Would need to allow it to be used off GCD when the proc is active. Im sure this has been put forward, but maybe cause it to spread fracture to any targets hit?

I'm a tank, I'm not looking to unload damage I'm looking to tank. Even if SC was spammable @ 1 stack per use it still wouldn't be worthwhile to use in AoE over a small heal and 20% DR unless someone else was tanking or I out gear the content and if that's the case then why am I there to begin with?

Steel Cyclone should be on par, from a tanking perspective, when compared to Inner Beast (during a period of AoE) or it will forever be a whimsical button we press for the sake of pressing buttons at a high opportunity cost.

Also 15 seconds is a lot of time during a fight, especially one involving AoE, a 'short' cooldown would be 5 seconds.

Having to make up 2 wrath stacks is 7.5 seconds of you dishing out single target moves while the rest of your group is AoEing, again not very intuitive design.

You already have overpower, why not just remove Steel Cyclone from the game then? Its an extraneous attack that has no real role to fill.

The attack itself is counter intuitive from a design standpoint. It does the same thing another attack does, but does it less effecitvely, more slowly and at a higher cost. That is unless you want to pump out more damage. which in this game doesnt seem to be a practical option in higher end content.
Maybe just take it off wrath have it throw out a dot and put it on CD off GCD like Circle of Scorn and be done with it?


They could also rethink the entire concept of wrath and just replace a warrior's MP with a Wrath value, similar to WoW's Rage mechanic. Make changes to Steel Cyclone to allow it to be a proper replacement for CCing Flash. But people would whine about it being too much like WoW then. Also it would require a complete rebuild of the entire class. So no... thats probably a terrible idea. Honestly, it seems as tho one of the two mechanics, a 300% self heal or a 20% damage reduction buff would outpace the other and become the standard. One has to go.

Also the 300% heal seems like it woulda taken a hit anyway in the name of PvP balance, unless they modified it to behave contextually.

Im just goin on and on right now and probably not even on topic. Sorry.

[Puresin]

Didnt read every post, but the proc idea is kinda nice. Would need to allow it to be used off GCD when the proc is active. Im sure this has been put forward, but maybe cause it to spread fracture to any targets hit?

You already have overpower, why not just remove Steel Cyclone from the game then? Its an extraneous attack that has no real role to fill.

The attack itself is counter intuitive from a design standpoint. It does the same thing another attack does, but does it less effecitvely, more slowly and at a higher cost. That is unless you want to pump out more damage. which in this game doesnt seem to be a practical option in higher end content.
Maybe just take it off wrath have it throw out a dot and put it on CD off GCD like Circle of Scorn and be done with it?

You're spot on, the problem with Steel Cyclone in its current iteration and in its 2.1 iteration is that there is a similar move (Overpower) that does the same exact thing, but better in that it does not have the 5 stacks of wrath cost associated with it. Even after 2.1 hits, no one will be using Steel Cyclone because of this reason.

In order for Steel Cyclone to see use, they must make it a proc off of Overpower and become free of wrath. I'd suggest making the proc chance be around 40% (similar to BLM fire3 proc) but add a cooldown to steel cyclone of 7-10 seconds.

Having Steel Cyclone apply fracture or any other kind of dot would be too powerful. They would have to nerf its damage and it would then become a clone of CoS, which is not a very impressive skill on its own.

[Necaust]

Make steel cyclone place a circular ring on the ground (as it does graphically) that applies a 10% buff to damage redux for anyone within range. That's utility and a useful trade for heavy aoe fights where DR from IB is not really needed.

[Sylari]

In order for Steel Cyclone to see use, they must make it a proc off of Overpower and become free of wrath.

Well technically they could take the easy way out and make it's secondary functions identical to IB's (with the healing for some target number of mobs), though that solution doesn't make SC an interesting or fun skill and is a rather boring answer.

[Phreak]

Well technically they could take the easy way out and make it's secondary functions identical to IB's (with the healing for some target number of mobs), though that solution doesn't make SC an interesting or fun skill and is a rather boring answer.

I'd rather have 'boring' and useful than 'boring' and useless. At it's current cost unless they make it provide some sort of tanking benefit equal to IB it will always be useless.

Without SC having some kind of pro to tanking outside of lolAoEdamage/threat which is already covered by Overpower and Flash just fine, it's useless.

[Leiron]

Perhaps they will tack on a secondary effect to SC.
Reduce the wrath cost perhaps?

[Sylari]

I'd rather have 'boring' and useful than 'boring' and useless.

Well then they just need to make SC give 20% DR just like IB and 50% (or 60% or 70%)damage->healing. Then it's better than IB at 3+ targets and won't even run the risk of being preferable in a single target encounter.

[Vortok]

A heal based on damage seems the simplest way to go on top of the enmity buff. Appeases the people upset that IB will be generating smaller green numbers as they'll have a different self heal ability to use and then stare at their health bar increasing in chunks. Would need to cap the heal so it doesn't get too silly - like the situation mentioned of an OT tanking a bunch of adds near the WAR MT.


The reverse route from aoe Wrath generation could also be taken. Since only single target moves generate Wrath, rather than adding aoe Wrath generation you could toy around with making Steel Cyclone that much more awesome (in aoe situations) since it won't be used nearly as much as IB would be used for single target fights. Standard 'keep it balanced with PLD/other future tanks' caveats apply, but that's why the devs are paid to do what they do.

[ProxyTooMuch]

Just make it restore 150 TP on use. Or something. Damage reduction is on everything already.

[Phreak]

Just make it restore 150 TP on use. Or something. Damage reduction is on everything already.

lol what? Nice blanket statement. We have DR on >2< whole abilities. Yeah...I guess that's pretty much everything.