melee dps buffs + bard nerf = cumulative effect too much?

[Ryel]

You clearly don t know how it is be a Bard on silence duty, having to pass rot, dodge slow crap, avoid lazer, hit ur silence when needed and still make it in time to pass the rot to the next in turn before 0. Dude, honestly, melee dps arent harder to play than a Bard, u have less things to think about, you just repeat ur combo casually like any other job, and the only 2 true things that are expected from u is 1) dodge those atacks 2) stay alive at least until u can use ur limit break.

You probably do believe u are very clever, while u sound like a very angry bird, but let s say we take out our silence, and give our songs to another job. Then what? bards will never have to to be on silence duty, or to reduce their dps by 20% to help their team mates. Another job would have to take those silences.... 2 good PLD? sure sure, it does mean that never a warrior would be in a coil party tho.... or maybe a monk? yeee killing their DPS by 50% just so they can stay in the correct stance for it does seem like a WONDERFULL trade. And then.... Songs! who u wanna give them to? can t give it to casters as 1 is made to boost their dmg already, so let s give it again to monk or dragoon!!!!! Here we have a cool idea, let s give songs that have 3 sec cast time and -20% dmg to a class that usually cant dodge things and spend their time whining coz they supposedly dont deal enougth dmg.

Rot rotation isn't all that hard even as a melee DPS but you still seem to be forgetting a few points:

BRD is currently in an awkward place to begin with, as it's a semi support that is acting as a ranged DPS

The current game is balanced around the Duty Finder placing parties in groups of 4 effectively making it so there's no room for a true "support" role as it would leave the burden of doing damage on only ONE DPS per party. This is an issue when it comes to designing bosses like Demon Wall that basically function as a DPS race before you lose the fight.

BRD right now is already pushed more towards the DPS role than it ever has been

Anyone who has played BRD since 1.0 can tell you this, in fact BRD's previous cross-class options had CNJ as it's 2nd giving you the ability to battle raise and cure, and your utility was further increased by your songs NOT draining your mana but rather being cooldown based. In addition with your attacks being animation lock restricted you had far less mobility than you do now, oh and did i mention that your attacks actually did combo based on range from the mob?

The changes they have made in 2.0 have sacrificed SOME of it's support features in favor of giving it more DPS, much more than they were capable of before and it appears they are realizing that it might have been nudged too far in the other direction.

If we were talking about something like RANGER which would be full on ranged DPS with no support capability a lot of the arguements would hold more merit than they currently do, but seeing as this isnt the case it should be mentioned once again.

BRD is a semi-support hiding in the skin of a true DPS

This is made even more evident by the lack of a DPS Limit Break, the one you CAN use is shared by two other classes and guess what? Both of them are healers.

Oh and again I've played BRD since 1.0, i actually like it, i even went out and grabbed Relic for it so when i WANT to play BRD nothing is stopping me from doing so.

If you dont believe me: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1307848/

[Songkla]

Ur statment about giving utility's brd has to other classes and make them worthless on the other hand is, well Call it what u want. Taking away ur mainhand and Place a wooden spoon in it would do same to ur class. Ranged dps or melee dps is just diffrent playstyle and there should be room for both.
Lets do as u said, remove brd from the Picture and see what will change for ur class.. sadly not much :/

I'm not complaining about my class. I think drg dps is sort of good compared to everyone else.
What people are saying, is that brds are doing equal/more dmg to the melee classes (which i dont have a problem with), as well as having all that utility compared to the rest. So what i've said, if brds don't have all their utility, and still have the same dps, they would just be another "dps class". There would be no "looking for 2 brds for coil group". This would kinda give a more even footing for all the dps classes to be selected for what ever group.

[Phai]

There would be no "looking for 2 brds for coil group". This would kinda give a more even footing for all the dps classes to be selected for what ever group.

This i agree on!
If we isolate the problem to coil grps, where i belive the main problem is atm, what would be the solution? Remove brd's utility or some of it? maybe. Reduce brd's dps so low its close to pointless to even bring a brd? could work. Give "struggleing" classes better utility? Maybe the way to go, not sure.
However, the main goal is that every class is wanted and players are free to play the class they like the most and not filterd out due to issues like we have atm. What conserns me the most, is the steps that might be in motion, a good solution? i fear not.
And second, is the class Balance the real issue, or is it the players themself that raise this problem by taking a lazy step and stack x2 brd in coil?!

[Viridiana]

Since you mentioned the DG mechanics, please tally up all the red shit that brds have to run out of in all the dungeons. You could probably count all the times with one hand.

Starting at Stone Vigil (because that's where Tomes start):
SV Boss 1: Have to run behind him when he does his room-wide aoe (Total: 1)
SV Boss 2: Have to play keep-away with the tornadoes, or you die (2)
SV Boss 3: Have to run out of the ice patches, and the mid-air ice patches, and the ice beams where he rakes across the room. (5)
DD Boss 2: Black pools on the ground and lasers of doom (7)
AV Boss 2: Eye of the Beholder, laser eye, and 1,000-tonze swing (10)
WP Boss 1: Moldy Phlegm (11)
WP Boss 2: chase sequence/"target" (12)
AK Boss 1: Void Fira, Rockslide, center golem's attacks (15)
AK Boss 2: I'll combine the black goo's into one, gnat aoe if they spawn/live that long (17)
AK Boss 3: Terror Eye, Imminent Catastrophe (19)
Turn 1: ADS laser, Cad's slime spawns if you're not the spawner, Cad's spit attacks (22)
Turn 2: laser, fire attack. .. probably missing one or two that qualify (24)
Turn 5: Twister, Divebomb, pools of fire (27)
Ifrit: Charge, Plumes, Eruption if your stunner is failing for whatever reason (29) (giving you the Eruption, because it's uncommon nowadays)
Garuda: teleport-AOEs, tornadoes, Slipstream from the adds if they survive and you're tanking them (31)
Titan: Weight of the Land, Bombs, Landslide (34)
Hydra: Fear Itself, fire/ice pools (36)

So, I'm counting 36 different mechanics just in the relic chain and Tome-producing dungeons. Do the melee have to deal with these and more? Sure. But it's flat out dishonest to say that the mechanics BRD has to dodge can be counted on one hand.

Edit: To respond to the issue of "LF2 BRDs for Coil," the best solution would be to educate people and let them know that there's no reason you need two BRDs. Seriously, a second BRD is half-wasted, and could be better spent with pretty much any other DPS class.

[Songkla]

So, I'm counting 36 different mechanics just in the relic chain and Tome-producing dungeons. Do the melee have to deal with these and more? Sure. But it's flat out dishonest to say that the mechanics BRD has to dodge can be counted on one hand.

Lots of the things on that list don't count. Please, when have you actively had to dodge center golem attacks, Eye of terror, Cad's split attacks, imminent catastrophe, rockslide, etc. If you do, then your doing something wrong. And more then half of them you can still dps while dodging. Tell me, what other class can do that?

Also, trying to educate people about not needing 2 bards, you go do that, and let me know how amazingly successful that turns out to be.

[Charas]

Lots of the things on that list don't count. Please, when have you actively had to dodge center golem attacks, Eye of terror, Cad's split attacks, imminent catastrophe, rockslide, etc. If you do, then your doing something wrong. And more then half of them you can still dps while dodging. Tell me, what other class can do that?

Also, trying to educate people about not needing 2 bards, you go do that, and let me know how amazingly successful that turns out to be.

AHHHHH I understand now, you are saying that u don t have to dodge actively most aoes! that explains a lot! or are u trying to say only Bards ...coz they are so good... don t have to dodge anything actively? i don t get it
On a serious note,as far as i know Dragoon and MonK don't have to stop damaging when they are dodging aoes, except if they are centered on the boss like repelling canons, and that is a 2 sec interruption, time for u to run out and in. Theoretically even BLM don t have to completly stop their dps while avoiding damages.
Once again if u feel like bards are so much better, i think u should definitly level one and make it ur main.

[Warchild_Zek]

They are trying to bring melee in line with ranged on certain encounters basically. So nothing to worry about. The discrepancy is already there, but its just with ranged atm.

[Devils]

Well, if they only change the untraited form, I'm pretty much sure that it won't be BRD exclusive, so other class will suffer as well.

One way or another, if they will remove any of the 3 cross-skills I mentioned before, it will cripple BRDs. A win-win situation? I guess not. People who asked for BRDs nerf will realize that it's their own loss.

Goodluck on another set of QQ SE.

PS:
If they were to nerf BRD, why not just reduce the Proc rate of River of Blood, it's pretty OP if they will leave it as is.

WTH are you talking about?

One way or another, if they will remove any of the 3 cross-skills I mentioned before, it will cripple BRDs

So if we lose B4B then we are crippled? Please, half the time in a large fight I don't use B4B due to the extra damage we take because of it does not outweigh the damage increase. A dead BRD will definitely have the lowest DPS and not sing any songs........saying any of the three will "cripple" us might be an overstatement?

But you would rather have them nerf the proc rate of River than lose B4B? That makes even less sense than your previous statement! River is awesome because it ties into us keeping out DOT's going, which greatly increases our damage over the course of a long fight, thanks mainly to River. I would rather lose B4B than lower River any day of the week.

[ReplicaX]

This is what I experience, ego aside.

Turn # /w 2 Brds is a community issue/trend, period. Whine about your community shouting for those 2 BRDs, not the job. All Turns do not require 2 BRDs at all. If a PLD refuses to be in a silence rotation in Turn 2, there are plenty more that will accept it. Same goes for Melee DPS that can't space properly /w tanks for Rot.

Moving forward, I have no issue with a very minor DPS adjustment on BRD. We are on the lower DPS side for having more utility to begin with and it's been like that since Day 1 when it comes to lvl50+ content.

The primary DPS issue of this game is the % of players that don't bother learning how to effectively maximize their DPS potential. Same goes for Bards with maximizing their DPS Role but also using their support side properly when it is needed.

This happens with any MMO with a small % complaining to Devs on OF about it. We will see what happens in 2.1.

[Lurkios]

Barding is just a balancing game. When do we need dps, when do we need sustain, hit silence every now and then, toss a slow if we feel like it. I do hope they don't nerf us too much, our DPS is already well below other similarly geared DPS classes and our "support" abilities don't do a thing for us in solo content.