2.1 Steel Cyclone, Not Enough

[dimsumdarren]

turn it into a 3 part combo....

heavy swing --> overpower --> steel cyclone...used for aoe threat. reduce SC damage a bit, boost its emnity so its the aoe version of butchers block. DONE!

[Naelle]

Warrior could use more mitigation but I think flat damage reduction is more paladins territory. Add the 6 second stun back to cyclone and you have 100% less damage taken. Bring back 1.0 cyclone.

[Phreak]

turn it into a 3 part combo....

heavy swing --> overpower --> steel cyclone...used for aoe threat. reduce SC damage a bit, boost its emnity so its the aoe version of butchers block. DONE!

But the would water down the class to the point where spending/building Wrath would be solely for IB, building and spending Wrath is the main mechanic for WARs it would be nice if we had more of a decision to make depending on the situation on where to invest our Wrath expenditure rather than a choice of spending on tanking utility or spending for the sake of doing a flashy twirl (which is all the current and new SC are/will be for).

Warrior could use more mitigation but I think flat damage reduction is more paladins territory. Add the 6 second stun back to cyclone and you have 100% less damage taken. Bring back 1.0 cyclone.

The problem with this is that if a group of mobs are immune to stuns this goes back to being a useless ability or becomes an odd addition single target stun tied to an AoE ability. Damage Reduction can applied to everything. As fat as DR being a PLD thing I wish people would give that up, DR is a TANK thing and WARs do it in a different fashion than PLDs (Reactive/Proactive short term duration vs Proactive long term CDs + passive mitigation).

Maybe instead of reducing the damage the WAR takes it reduces the damage the enemies deal if you're so dead set on keeping as much DR flavor away from WARs as possible.

[Paikis]

Leave Inner beast's heal alone, and put the 20% Damage reduction for 6 seconds on Steel Cyclone. Problem solved.

[Traek]

turn it into a 3 part combo....

Totally with Phreak on this one. No thanks to 3 part combo. Another method of course is Overpower procs to make a free SC. This would at least give it some usability. My only problem with this is just the overall price of Overpower, which means the proc rate would need to be relatively high.

Warrior could use more mitigation but I think flat damage reduction is more paladins territory. Add the 6 second stun back to cyclone and you have 100% less damage taken. Bring back 1.0 cyclone.

And for things that are not stunnable? Also diminishing returns. Also IB in 2.1 gives us 20% DR, so "paladins territory" is moot.

[Phreak]

Leave Inner beast's heal alone, and put the 20% Damage reduction for 6 seconds on Steel Cyclone. Problem solved.

And then we would eventually see situations where were using, again, an AoE ability on a single boss target which is just poor design imo. It'd be Ret Paladins + Divine Storm all over again in Wrath of the Lich King.

Totally with Phreak on this one. No thanks to 3 part combo. Another method of course is Overpower procs to make a free SC. This would at least give it some usability. My only problem with this is just the overall price of Overpower, which means the proc rate would need to be relatively high.

Hmm the idea of a proc sounds pretty nice actually instead of Wrath generation. Procs can really liven up a class ( provided there aren't too many then it creates flustered play and a feeling of waste when you're not using up procs because your more valuable procs proc'd). It rewards reactive play vs 1-2-3 or in Overpower's case 2-2-2-2-2-2-2.

[Paikis]

And then we would eventually see situations where were using, again, an AoE ability on a single boss target which is just poor design imo. It'd be Ret Paladins + Divine Storm all over again in Wrath of the Lich King.

Why is this a bad thing? How is it any different to having to use IB, a single target ability, on AoE pulls?

The current situation will not change after the 2.1 patch. Steel Cyclone will still only be useful on content where you are in no danger of being killed. Inner Beast will be the best and only choice for your wrath stacks.

[Naelle]

Not using steel cyclone is every single pull isn't a bad thing. There needs to be room for actual decision making. Most mobs can be stunned as far as trash. For the things that can't be? IB.

[Phreak]

Why is this a bad thing? How is it any different to having to use IB, a single target ability, on AoE pulls?

The current situation will not change after the 2.1 patch. Steel Cyclone will still only be useful on content where you are in no danger of being killed. Inner Beast will be the best and only choice for your wrath stacks.

The whole point of these suggestions is to remove cases like these, what feels more natural/intuitive? Using a single target ability on a pack of enemies or an AoE? and vice-versa.

Not using steel cyclone is every single pull isn't a bad thing. There needs to be room for actual decision making. Most mobs can be stunned as far as trash. For the things that can't be? IB.

That isn't a decision it just looks like one. With the design of SC stunning mobs it's application is very hit or miss, there is no choice, one will always be an obvious gain over the other. Decisions require consideration, there is nothing to consider when an enemy is immune/not immune to stuns in which one you use.

[Traek]

Hmm the idea of a proc sounds pretty nice actually instead of Wrath generation. Procs can really liven up a class ( provided there aren't too many then it creates flustered play and a feeling of waste when you're not using up procs because your more valuable procs proc'd). It rewards reactive play vs 1-2-3 or in Overpower's case 2-2-2-2-2-2-2.

Indeed. I'd appreciate the variety instead of just spam. The good thing about this is I think it'd fundamentally be easier for SE to implement/balance, as mechanics involving DR and Wrath generating they might be hesitant to try. It will give SC much more use, with the enmity increase SC would still be viable for snap aggroe when needed (and no proc) and things wouldn't change for the most part. My only issue is with what this other discussion:

Why is this a bad thing? How is it any different to having to use IB, a single target ability, on AoE pulls?

The current situation will not change after the 2.1 patch. Steel Cyclone will still only be useful on content where you are in no danger of being killed. Inner Beast will be the best and only choice for your wrath stacks.

This is precisely what we are trying to change. It makes sense for an AoE wrath blowing ability, to give wrath blowing ability effects. Using IB on ST for AoE pulls also feels clunky and wrong. That was part of this discussion as well. Since the 20% DR is already going to a ST ability, normalize it for AoE situations.

*Edit* Snip TouchandFeel being a stand up guy.