Petition: Add A Support Role To The Game.

[amnie]

I still hope for - in the future - getting a class that can support like the captain can in lotro. it's still my favourite support role in any mmo I ever played (though pistols in TSW is fun too but usually combined with a healing class to just buff the player's healing -.-)

lotro's community didn't take the captain seriously at first, but eventually they were really high in demand. I can totally see that happening with changing bards to be more support-ish (again), or to give us a second supporter class that is an ACTUAL supporter. constantly buffing/debuffing/placing stuff/off-healing (or even off-tanking) can be quite a demanding - but also very rewarding job.

(aw, now I miss my captain )


edit: I played mostly whm/rdm in FFXI, but when I played my rdm I had a lot of fun with it. I could also see a second job for the archer being an 'actual' supporter, or maybe a job for the coming musketeer. the puppetmaster could be a support job (why not when bard is mostly a dps? :P)

of course there could also be the 'simple' solution of making the songs the bard already has a lot more useful. give mage's ballad a burst to magical damage, for example. (I always forget the name of the song for tp regen since I never use it, but that could give the enemy a debuff or something like that) swiftsong could lower the gcd (just a little, maybe .1 - .2 seconds) ....

[Duelle]

They also said they're looking into ways to choose to be a healer in dungeons under 30 as an ACN. If they can do that (allow a class to choose its role if it can fulfill more than one) they can make this role as well.

All that does is allow ACN to take up a second of the trinity roles. That's entirely different from wanting to add a fourth role.

Support cannot effectively exist in an MMO that is built on the holy trinity. Not that you'd want it because "support" has and will screw over classes that have no business holding the jockstraps of the "real heroes" and tend to become either incredibly underpowered with a blindingly idiotic and non-functional niche or in such a bad spot within player dynamics that they get abandoned or allowed to stagnate.

Support blended into the trinity roles works because it adds depth and strategy to one-trick ponies (which is what you'd get if you took away debuffs, CC and buffs from tank, heals and DPS). We gain a lot from the current model and I for one hope they stick to it as we move forward. And yes, I also say this because I want RDM to be a DPS job with utility built in, not a "support" class it was condemned to be in FFXI.

[MartaDemireux]

DPS job with utility built in

You are missing the point entirely. I quoted the part I'm addressing as you must not have read the OP.

I'm not asking for pure support classes.

I'm asking for future DPS that follow BRD's pattern (as well as BRD) of having support built in and do not have a DPS LB to fill only 1 slot in a 4 man party or up to 2 slots in an 8 man party when using Duty Finder to ensure there is always a DPS option for LB's as many encounters are built around the assumed use of one. I suggested adding a 4th "role" simply to easily distinguish such DPS classes/jobs from DPS classes/jobs with a DPS LB instead of just a hidden tick mark on BRD's data that only allows the server to see what's up and prevent all DPS roles to be filled by them.

Edit: The reason I want it distinguishable player-side is because I've run into many situations where other players will say "BRD LB! The mob was almost dead why didn't you LB to kill it? STUPID," or thereabouts. If it's distinguished, by say a yellow background, that it does not have a DPS LB then everyone will know by default and avoid that scenario. I really suggest you read the OP in its entirety. I've addressed multiple times that by "support" I mean "DPS without a DPS LB that has similar functions to BRD."

[Duelle]

[QUOTE=MartaDemireux;1595600]

I'm asking for future DPS that follow BRD's pattern (as well as BRD) of having support built in and do not have a DPS LB to fill only 1 slot in a 4 man party or up to 2 slots in an 8 man party when using Duty Finder to ensure there is always a DPS option for LB's as many encounters are built around the assumed use of one.

You shouldn't segregate bards from the rest of DPS because regardless of LB (which I have mentioned before, but I can bet dollars to donuts BRD's LB will change when we get more ranged classes in the game).

[MartaDemireux]

You shouldn't segregate bards from the rest of DPS because regardless of LB (which I have mentioned before, but I can bet dollars to donuts BRD's LB will change when we get more ranged classes in the game).

But in a trinity game can it not also be argued that you should represent each of the 3 LB types in any given Duty Finder party? That a DPS slot aught be filled with a DPS that has said LB? That a DPS without said LB should be classified as a different role for queueing purposes to prevent the absence of a DPS LB where it matters?

[Nahara]

But in a trinity game can it not also be argued that you should represent each of the 3 LB types in any given Duty Finder party?

No, you really can't, because your role in a group is not defined by your limit break.

That a DPS slot aught be filled with a DPS that has said LB? That a DPS without said LB should be classified as a different role for queueing purposes to prevent the absence of a DPS LB where it matters?

As I said earlier, there is no encounter in the game (and there should be no encounter) where it is impossible to win without the presence of a damage-dealing limit break. The only one you might have a case with is Ifrit Hard Mode and killing the nails, but even then, if you can't burn down all the nails in time, you can still possibly survive Hellfire using the tank LB, and you will always have a tank LB.

[MartaDemireux]

No, you really can't, because your role in a group is not defined by your limit break.

But your LB is defined by your role in the party. BRD is an exception to the rule so you're either stuck with A: leaving it in a state of inconsistency (bad choice imo); B: changing BRD's LB to DPS (it wouldn't work well especially with incoming changes designed to weaken their DPS); C: my proposal (best choice imo and doesn't hurt the game any just gives different options and a form of consistency).

As I said earlier, there is no encounter in the game (and there should be no encounter) where it is impossible to win without the presence of a damage-dealing limit break. The only one you might have a case with is Ifrit Hard Mode and killing the nails, but even then, if you can't burn down all the nails in time, you can still possibly survive Hellfire using the tank LB, and you will always have a tank LB.

Tank LB does not work for Titan or Ifrit. It does work on Garuda's Reckoning but not on sisters' exlposions. Content is designed taking into consideration LB's for when you challenge said content at its appropriate level. In level appropriate gear, Demon Wall's adds are extremely dangerous without a DPS LB. Tonberry King will kill you if not enough DPS is done in time. Ifrit's nails. Titan's heart. Garuda's sisters. ADS clicks. They're all DPS checks and the key factor here is they're all designed with LBs in mind. Prolonging your death or a full heal and raise won't save you in a DPS check situation especially when its game over if you don't do it in time.

[Anna_Lannis]

The former can create the "Princess <Class>" attitude and the later just disenfranchises players with a fondness for a class but unable to play due to being pidgeon-holed into unnecessary support.

^^ We got enough princess bards back at Vana'diel thank you.

[Nusnam]

I really miss having true support role however I recognize that FFXIV is designed for solo play which would be a huge hurdle for classes which rely on other players to be effective. That being said I really agree with original poster's suggestion in having a Limit Break designated for Buff/Debuff. I would also like to see a wider variety of songs for buff/debuff for Bards so players have more choices in various situations.

In regards to the holy trinity arguments, we are merely suggesting a few DPS classes be steered towards support as their basis of play. So you'll have to decide how you can best assist your group by either continuing to deal damage or offering some utility to others in your group. So the word of the day is choice. Clearly this is the direction SE has already designated we are simply asking for it to be more defined for group purposes.

[MartaDemireux]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/119...s-with-Yoshida

It appears that they will be adding a new role, the "Hybrid Role"! Very good news, excited to see how it turns out.