BARD 2.1 change [requesting letter from the producer explanation]

[Enfarious]

As long as Internal Release becomes exclusive to pugilist/monks only I'm cool with that. I just wouldn't see it being fair to stop only bards from getting it considering they have to level pugilist to 15 just to unlock the job.

This goes back to the original train wreck mistake of switching which jobs bard was based on. It was Arc/Cnj and made the job a real support on the field, off cures and raises, not nearly as potent as a whm of course but capable of keeping your melee standing so a whm could focus on the tank.

This whole brd is more dps than support thing has been a train wreck since day one. I just think that support/healing classes shouldn't be concerned about where they parse, your support/healing, that brd ended up falling onto the wrong side of that fence is a design issue from the start.

Anyway, being one of those legacy cats that has leveled and run as everything I know that I have no clue what it is I'm talking about. I should realize that brd was always intended as a DD and they really should be getting buffed and losing songs since those aren't what brd is about anyway.

[Viridiana]

This goes back to the original train wreck mistake of switching which jobs bard was based on. It was Arc/Cnj and made the job a real support on the field, off cures and raises, not nearly as potent as a whm of course but capable of keeping your melee standing so a whm could focus on the tank.

With the way they redesigned WHM skills for ARR, I don't think CNJ sub was ever going to work for BRD. And the level of changes I think it would take to make CNJ sub work for BRD is prohibitively high. . .

[ChaozK]

With the way they redesigned WHM skills for ARR, I don't think CNJ sub was ever going to work for BRD. And the level of changes I think it would take to make CNJ sub work for BRD is prohibitively high. . .

Its not nearly as complicated actually.
Rez turns into battle rez (traited version can have a different bonus)
Cure scales off of WPN (traited version adds bonus for MND)
Esuna becomes cross skill
Repose becomes cross skill
Aero can be equipped by DoW
(Stoneskin is already decent)

There are a lot of options here and honestly i think we might see a pretty big overhaul on CNJ cross class skills, since it was mentioned they will rebalance cross class skills around the board and CNJ is already very lackluster for PLD.

[OPneedNerfs]

Its not nearly as complicated actually.
Rez turns into battle rez (traited version can have a different bonus)
Cure scales off of WPN (traited version adds bonus for MND)
Esuna becomes cross skill
Repose becomes cross skill
Aero can be equipped by DoW
(Stoneskin is already decent)

There are a lot of options here and honestly i think we might see a pretty big overhaul on CNJ cross class skills, since it was mentioned they will rebalance cross class skills around the board and CNJ is already very lackluster for PLD.

Because mana is an infinite resource...

also,

Battle rez for bards means taking a unique ability to SMN as a DPS and slapping it on a bard. Tell me about how BRDs are taking up slots from other classes again?

Same thing with Cure, BLMs and SMNs have Physick and a trait that boosts healing for a reason.

Esuna becoming a cross skill is an ok suggestion but it would be waay too situational to be of any use. (only needed when there are 3-4 removable debuffs on target)

Implying repose is viable when even BLMs are complaining about the lack of use of their AoE sleep...

Aero would be a complete waste of 1 GCD as any other weaponskill a bard has in his disposal on GCD would be better.

Stoneskin is decent on Paladins because they don't see much use for their mana in most situations.

Back to the topic on BRD nerfs:

As it is now, bards are brought along for the CURRENT end game content (coil) for 2 reasons that many have pointed out. Silence(Blunt arrow) and Mana(Mage Ballad).
If that's the reason why they are being brought, why would the nerf be anywhere but concerning those 2 things?

This nerf is an obvious attempt at appeasing the QQs of people who want to play an already overpopulated class and complaining there aren't enough spots for them in a party.

Anyways, I shall put it bluntly.

Even if Bards get nerfed to oblivion for 2.1, the fact that coil's mechanics are remaining as-is will mean Bards will still be valued over other DPS classes in Coil.
The only difference will be that there will now be fewer coil static parties being formed due to the lack of bards, guess what this means? That's right! Lesser slots for everyone else as well.

To those that wish for a slot in coil and think BRDs are the cause of you not getting one, good luck finding a coil group now since most good bards already have their static parties. You'll either be stuck with a bad BRD or no BRD at all meaning you'll need to find good Paladins or Monks but guess where those people are?

As it stands, there's only a few things you can do if you want to do coil:
a) become the cream of the crop of the class you're playing so that you will be picked over all the others
b) find a group of friends who are not playing the class you are playing
c) become a bard yourself because you don't qualify for any of the above.

[Sheyde]

Its not nearly as complicated actually.
Rez turns into battle rez (traited version can have a different bonus)
Cure scales off of WPN (traited version adds bonus for MND)
Esuna becomes cross skill
Repose becomes cross skill
Aero can be equipped by DoW
(Stoneskin is already decent)

There are a lot of options here and honestly i think we might see a pretty big overhaul on CNJ cross class skills, since it was mentioned they will rebalance cross class skills around the board and CNJ is already very lackluster for PLD.

I agree with you and CNJ is looking really lackluster for BRD as well.

If they were to change our other cross class to CNJ, I would prefer that they change the skills to function differently in a bard's hands than in a WHM/CNJ. Cure would change to either a regen song or a increase healing done by 20% song. Stoneskin could change to a song that reduces damage taken by 10-20% or something. Aero can change to being a song that applies a DoT to a mob. Anything like that would find a place on my hotbar. Unfortunately, those changes would take a lot of work on SE's part, and I doubt that we could hope for anything similar to that.

If they do rework cross class abilities, I'd be willing to get rid of BfB and have it exchanged for a ranged version of Leg Sweep. That would tone down our DPS a tad and gives us some utility while keeping Invigorate for AoE heavy fights.

Only time will tell as far as what they actually are going to change. I'm just glad they didn't mention messing with the mobility aspect of BRD as that's what drew me to the class. I really enjoy being able to kite things around.

Sheyde Farron

[Drakkur]

BRDs are a top DPS class, but i think there is an inherent issue with either the race Miqo'te or the +1 bow. On twintania i consistently parse 250-270 single target (depending if my raid needs me to hold back to not screw the rotation, i only have 3 pieces of ilvl90 myth (BiS), crafted boots and rest DL, NO +1). I do this on every fight.

Our Miqo'te, who is way more geared than I am, by almost 50 Crit rating has +1 and min/maxed, also just as good as player and more experienced. He parses about the same DPS sometimes less, which shouldn't even be possible. I've traced it to Crit %, his is 17% mine is 33% (out of 20-30 twintania parses). I think there is a flaw in either the race and how stats are calculated for that race the Miqo'te. I'm a Wildwood btw (so i have 1 more dex, but that doesnt mean anything).

Every Miqo'te i've raided with has had consistently lower crit % on parses.

I don't know what is attributed to the lower crit exactly, but it is a major issue.

[DJ_Foxx]

BRDs are a top DPS class,

I still think the myth of this statement comes from HM Titan because BRD does not lose dmg while moving from plumes and the like. On average from other BRD's I've asked they do on average of 190 - 250 dps with mix of myth, coil, and DL gear. SMN and DRG seem to do that much dps with half the gear.

[WiseWolfHolo]

BRDs are a top DPS class, but i think there is an inherent issue with either the race Miqo'te or the +1 bow. On twintania i consistently parse 250-270 single target.

Top dps? in terms of DoW they are dead last and throw in a good mages and bard might drop to 4th. As for the rest, if you do 250-270 there is a high chance that you will pull off of a tank, just saying because at 220 I even steal from the tanks who have full i90 and +1 weapons. My miqo'te is of the moon so I have the +1 to mage stats but have a crit rate of 35% average.

[Rhained]

Top dps? in terms of DoW they are dead last and throw in a good mages and bard might drop to 4th. As for the rest, if you do 250-270 there is a high chance that you will pull off of a tank, just saying because at 220 I even steal from the tanks who have full i90 and +1 weapons. My miqo'te is of the moon so I have the +1 to mage stats but have a crit rate of 35% average.

Sounds like totally made up numbers to me, a bard, poorly geared, with 250-270 dps on turn 5? yea.... right....

And he thinks BRD is top dps class, im not sure hes even been in coils at all.

[DJ_Foxx]

Top dps? in terms of DoW they are dead last and throw in a good mages and bard might drop to 4th. As for the rest, if you do 250-270 there is a high chance that you will pull off of a tank, just saying because at 220 I even steal from the tanks who have full i90 and +1 weapons. My miqo'te is of the moon so I have the +1 to mage stats but have a crit rate of 35% average.

From what I've seen BRD does the least dps out of all dd in the game.