BARD 2.1 change [requesting letter from the producer explanation]

[Drakkur]

It would be great if you show us that spreadsheet because like I said before it is not possible with your current equipment.

Easymode's spreadsheet is on these forums, there are multiple threads that link back to it, primarily the one that talks about DPS output per myth tomb upgrades. If you're too lazy to find it yourself like I did a while back, then I'm too lazy to link it.

[Thailer]

Sunday when we are back to doing T5, i'll get them to you. If you're in an emergency for this data, want a 5 min parse of a target dummy? What stipulations? No Piecing debuff, take ME out of my macro on a lvl 50 dummy? How about just log on to siren and we can sit next to a dummy in a group and you run your parser (my name is Drakkur Vextorian).

Calm down turbo! You are the one that said you had the parses to prove it. I just asked to see them.

[Rhained]

Calm down turbo! You are the one that said you had the parses to prove it. I just asked to see them.

Turns out he dosn't have them, what a surprise!

[Allyrion]

1) That's a bigger buff to PLD than it is to BRD. No one slow-casts an 8 second rez if they can help it in combat, because that's usually a good way to die. Pop Hallowed Ground, though, and you still have 2 seconds of invulnerability to turn the boss so he doesn't cleave whoever you just rez'd.
2) It already scales off of WPN and MND for all classes. And you want to take away the Freecure trait? The best thing that ever happened to Cure II?
3) Pretty situational, but at least it's potentially useful.
4) Does sleep even see any use past AK?
5) Aero would be a waste of a slot. We have no INT and low Magic Damage. You can't just give an offensive spell to a non-mage and assume it'll be powerful.
6) I can kinda agree here, but it's still really situational. We can't even use it before a pull if there's a WHM, and we have better things to be doing in combat unless something has gone very wrong. . .

I'm not going to say CNJ should be the sub-class or what it would take to make that work.

Look at it this way, though. Bard is really exceptional in what they get from cross class and I think comparing what it would be from what it is now is a mistake.

All the other dps jobs get very little compared to the bard. I think mostly utility is by design since bard is such an exception.

We can agree cooldowns are a big deal, right? Bards get TWO. No one else gets two from cross class. On top of that, bard has its own.

NOTE:
I know bard dps is bad and they already need these to stay competitive but they've already said they're going to nerf them and that they get too much cross class benefit. I am just talking about the overall design rather than numbers (which they should adjust with any change).

So for example, monk gets a cd from lancer, like bard, and invigorate. Lancer gets internal release and mantra, like bard. Both use marauder otherwise and get what? Mercy Stroke and fracture. Only monks use the latter (and only when tp is fine) and the former is underwhelming.

SMN gets a cd from bard and none from THM, it also gets swiftcast. THM gets a cd from bard and has none for itself, but it does get virus and quelling strikes as well.

Bard has its own cd and takes from MNK and DRG. It also gets Invigorate (which is amazing), mantra (mini-mantra) and Second Wind.

It's really the only dps that really benefits from having two other dps classes as cross class. The only other is SMN which gets only swiftcast and surecast from BLM anyway.

IS THAT FAIR?
Well, yes it seems fair. Bard damage is the lowest and cooldown management is like the only complication for the class. It's balanced well like that.

So what's my point if I think so? Well, I'm just saying it's not hard to imagine a world where bard is like every other class in gaining mostly utility from their cross class and one major damage increase.

I, personally, don't think they need to nerf bards. But they are, and that's just the case. Numbers can be balanced if they change the job requirements OR if they simply take IR or BfB from bard.
Having one class for a damage buff and one for utility is pretty par for the course.

Damage decrease on movement would be a much better solution though.

[Viridiana]

We can agree cooldowns are a big deal, right? Bards get TWO. No one else gets two from cross class. On top of that, bard has its own.

I disagree on this, and you actually contradict yourself later. Both SMN and BLM get Raging Strikes and Quelling Strikes from BRD. Those are both DPS cooldowns. Heck, Swiftcast is also a DPS cooldown for SMN when they use it to Shadow Flare or to Swiftcast Summon if their egi somehow dies. SMN even gets an entire extra dot that they routinely add into their rotation unless they start hitting MP issues. When's the last time you saw a BRD routinely using Feint or Haymaker? Also, I'm pretty sure DRG uses Fracture, as I've seen people in the forums saying to use it occasionally to prevent dot clipping.

I agree with the rest of your point, that BRD is actually in a decent place right now and we don't need the nerf. I just don't want people thinking that we have an unfair advantage when it comes to cross class skills.

[Allyrion]

I disagree on this, and you actually contradict yourself later. Both SMN and BLM get Raging Strikes and Quelling Strikes from BRD. Those are both DPS cooldowns. Heck, Swiftcast is also a DPS cooldown for SMN when they use it to Shadow Flare or to Swiftcast Summon if their egi somehow dies. SMN even gets an entire extra dot that they routinely add into their rotation unless they start hitting MP issues. When's the last time you saw a BRD routinely using Feint or Haymaker? Also, I'm pretty sure DRG uses Fracture, as I've seen people in the forums saying to use it occasionally to prevent dot clipping.

I agree with the rest of your point, that BRD is actually in a decent place right now and we don't need the nerf. I just don't want people thinking that we have an unfair advantage when it comes to cross class skills.

Quelling Strikes isn't really a dps cooldown. It's a cooldown that allows you to continue to do dps, but I'd still categorize that as utility.
Swiftcast is great, you're right. But It's not exactly an Invigorate. Fracture is decent and I could see them making changes to have Bards get something rotational from another class.

The fact of the matter is that Bards have Raging Strikes while taking IR and Blood for Blood. That's pretty heavy handed. Even if you counted Quelling Strikes as a cd, I think it still counts against the Bard who already has enough CDs that they don't need to steal from two other classes.

I don't think that's unfair when it's by design. I'm just not sure Fracture and Thunder are really equivalents to either of those cooldowns. Which is really what you should be comparing to, rather than a useless thing like Feint or Haymaker.

EDIT:
Ask any monk or dragoon if they'd give up Fracture for Raging Strikes. You won't get a hesitant answer.
I'm not sure about summoners, but I bet they'd give up Thunder for Internal Release.

Reason? Both trade resource efficiency for damage. Cooldowns are simply free damage increases.

[Drakkur]

Calm down turbo! You are the one that said you had the parses to prove it. I just asked to see them.

Here is me, dpsing with another very geared BRD in my guild (he was screwing around and only had half the uptime). No Piecing debuff on the target, I added the itemized result to show that I'm not loading up all the dummies with my Dots (they would be a much larger fraction of the damage).
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ummy250DPS.png

Here is all the BRDs in the guild getting together to do a DPS contest, Blueash is a prime example of how well a very geared Bard can actually do.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ompetition.png

My apologies for crappy pictures, I don't have PS on this computer so I used fail paint.

[Leon_Stormrage]

Here is me, dpsing with another very geared BRD in my guild (he was screwing around and only had half the uptime). No Piecing debuff on the target, I added the itemized result to show that I'm not loading up all the dummies with my Dots (they would be a much larger fraction of the damage).
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ummy250DPS.png

Here is all the BRDs in the guild getting together to do a DPS contest, Blueash is a prime example of how well a very geared Bard can actually do.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ompetition.png

My apologies for crappy pictures, I don't have PS on this computer so I used fail paint.

Yes, I know... I done this dps in a dummie.
I see difficult to do the same performance in T5, thats all

[Ephier]

I prefer to remove internal release than blood for blood. Internal release is the OP issue because of teh constant procs of blood letter in conjuction with the River of blood. Removing Blood for blood Will nerf The class but removing internal release will balance it.

This man has the right idea. My thoughts exactly.

[Cinicus]

The problem is that SE made arc1.0 a ranged dps but then made brd out of it and it was support 1.0 and then made it into ranged dps 2.0 because the DF/game doesn't have a "support spot" so now SE is stuck trying to figure out where brd should fit. Only solution is to pick what it's true roll should be and stick with it. Make it full ranged dps and give it a dps LB or make it support and add that kind of a class into the DF/game. That is my opinion. Once again it just stems from SE's lack of proper planing and foresight.