So, what do PALADINS get in 2.1?

[Dedayius]

The problem with PLD off tanking is the only 'dps combo' we have is Fast Blade > Riot Blade because if we use our main combo, in Sword Oath, we'll be main tanking in a matter of moments. If they found a way to make the excess MP worthwhile (maybe a Enspell that drains mp or decent healing/Holy damage) then we'll still offer 'nothing to do' as an off tank as opposed to WAR.

*edit* it's also impossible to jump into dps spec gear mid fight and you never know what'll happen to the MT, so jumping into dps gear would seem moot imho.

There's something interesting. Get rid of our terrible cooldowns that are essentially useless and replace it with a damage buff that drains MP while active. Also make sword oath reduce enmity gained so we can use more than a couple of buttons.

[Churchill]

The problem with PLD off tanking is the only 'dps combo' we have is Fast Blade > Riot Blade because if we use our main combo, in Sword Oath, we'll be main tanking in a matter of moments. If they found a way to make the excess MP worthwhile (maybe a Enspell that drains mp or decent healing/Holy damage) then we'll still offer 'nothing to do' as an off tank as opposed to WAR.

*edit* it's also impossible to jump into dps spec gear mid fight and you never know what'll happen to the MT, so jumping into dps gear would seem moot imho.

Well, personally I know what will happen to the main tank every run. He'll manage CDs properly and healers will pre-cast heals properly or we will start the run over until people stop fucking up.

Our Paladin offtank never pulls hate from me, runs DPS accessories the entire time while in Sword Oath outside of when he needs the -20% mitigation, pulling hate is never an issue.

The extra 200DPS is very welcomed though.

There's something interesting. Get rid of our terrible cooldowns that are essentially useless and replace it with a damage buff that drains MP while active. Also make sword oath reduce enmity gained so we can use more than a couple of buttons.

Why would you want your highest enmity producing Oath to reduce enmity? lol.

[WingsofWar]

Why would you want your highest enmity producing Oath to reduce enmity? lol.

wut? sword oath isn't suppose to generate enmity, shield oath does. Unfortunately both oaths produce enmity, making the enmity Bonus on Shield Oath seems like its slightly broken.

[Fyreus]

I think people may have misunderstood how amazing Sword Oath is later on (especially compared to when we first got it). Right now you can fly to the top of the list if used properly, and if PLD were to utilize it as a damage stance, it would need -enmity to keep the mob off of us lol.

A patch or two ago Sword Oath + Rage of Halone were pretty disgusting for instant hate or driving yourself to the top of the list. Disgusting enough that those who didn't spam it, didn't notice how it trumped the full combo alone. Sadly this went under the player radar so no one will ever know how great it was

[kro]

Fix Awareness preventing crits on heals.
Make Shield Swipe worth using either by applying a useful (non-resisted) debuff.
Bring back Holy Succor. A paladin without a heal is not a paladin.

[Zirael_Foxfire]

PAL really don't need a buff...maybe an ability or two needs to be fixed, but no buffs are necessary at all.

Learn to share with your WAR brethren.

Defence wise PLD doesn't need a boost, but WAR is better DPS than PLD and thus will be preferred tank from now on. It was just the same in 1.0 - WAR was tank of choice.
PLD needs DPS bump to match WAR.

[Altimis]

A paladin without a heal is not a paladin.

/facepalm...

[MiNuN]

Lol, so he gets something I want it too even though you have enough?

I can't understand how you even feel.

[Giantbane]

wut? sword oath isn't suppose to generate enmity, shield oath does. Unfortunately both oaths produce enmity, making the enmity Bonus on Shield Oath seems like its slightly broken.

My understanding of the tank stances for both classes is that they only generate enough extra enmity to match the enmity generated without the tank stance on. So 20% more for Shield Oath, 25% more for Defiance. I understand that the idea that the tank stances generated 2x threat was from one of the beta builds and was changed to its current form before release.

Anyhow, it's not that Sword Oath has an inherent enmity boosting effect like Shield Oath, it's just that you get the full enmity of the normal stance (which matches what Shield Oath provides) and then you throw the bonus enmity provided by Sword Oath on top of that which is where they pull ahead.

Why would you want your highest enmity producing Oath to reduce enmity? lol.

Sword Oath is your DPS stance. Why would you want to have your DPS stance generate more enmity than your tank stance? I agree that Sword Oath should get an enmity reduction property so it may be properly used as a DPS stance.

[louispv]

Defence wise PLD doesn't need a boost, but WAR is better DPS than PLD and thus will be preferred tank from now on. It was just the same in 1.0 - WAR was tank of choice.
PLD needs DPS bump to match WAR.

PLD will still be tanking everything and no one will allow WAR to tank anything even after these changes. WAR will have vengeance, storm's path and inner beast. PLD will have everything PLD already had, plus storm's path and inner beast. Storm's path and inner beast are lowering the damage the enemy does not the damage the WAR takes.

We just won't see 2 healer/1 tank/5 dd's anymore, we'll see 2 healer/WAR/PLD/4 DD groups. Or maybe 1 healer/PLD/WAR/ 5 DD. PLD got almost all the buffs WAR got.