Quote Originally Posted by Steeled View Post
I want to see more fun in the PLD rotation but SE has set each class to have the same number of abilties, and given paladin so many cooldowns. Warrior has a ton of options and I always liked that.

I really like your shield swipe idea, but I'm afraid it's trying to be too much like Maim. Still, if they could also make sure it blocks the next hit (Imagine it, you've hit the target with your shield, dazing it, and its next attack is easily brushed aside. Another good reason for the change is that shield swipe is useless while offtanking, because it's not going to proc (an aoe might, but lol).

I like most of your ideas, but I feel like it comes off as a copy of warrior. Two main skill rotations, similar short term mitigation. I like playing warrior but I want them to find a unique path for paladin.
Part of the problem is they've uprooted PLD's "unique path" (stand there and brace yourself) and transplanted it on WAR. Paladin's thing was mitigation; Warrior's was recovery. Now WAR has pound for pound more effective mitigation barring shield blocks (which is only a ~5% advantage in PLD's favour, and only on physical damage) and PLD is just left standing there while Square pulls its plate mail off piece by piece and welds it to the Warrior wherever it'll fit. It is, by far, the more passive of the two, which was okay because the focus was on mitigation and not active recovery.

But now, WAR is in X-zibit land where it gets mitigation while it recovers so it can mitigate and recover at the same time, and the PLD is stuck out in the frozen hills of Coerthas with nothing but the faint glow of his Holy Shield to keep him company. Every one of their skills has been made useful, while PLD is sitting there with one that's more of a hindrance than a help (Awareness), one that is straight up useless (Tempered Will), one that one that only gets used when not the primary target (Sword Oath), and one that never works because it requires the target to be stepping on your foot (Cover), to say nothing of how infrequently the MP regeneration from Riot Blade comes into effect.

WAR is receiving significant improvements to its survivability and crowd control ability, as well as a marginal increase to its damage by way of Wrath stacks now actually being usable and the reduced cooldown on Unchained. This is very clearly going to swing nearly every encounter in WAR's favor, and now instead of making both tanks desirable we've gone back to 1.0 where the only thing you might want a PLD for was Darnus Hard Mode. These adjustments address a balance issue by creating an even bigger one.

I think the ideas above would go a long way to evening the playing field for both jobs while still retaining the "feel" of each one. I don't really think it's fair to shoot down an idea just because it's similar to another skill. Do you then object to Vengeance because it's effectively the same thing as Rampart and Sentinel (only better)? Can you really say you want them to retain the "uniqueness" of both classes while simultaneously taking the uniqueness from PLD, giving it to WAR (in spades, no less) and then telling PLD to go find something else to be good at? That seems backwards to me.

I don't necessarily think it's a crime to want for PLD to have a more active role in the party either, and I think giving it a second full combo would do a lot to help it in that aspect. It's most certainly not a crime to want the abilities it does have to all serve a purpose. 18% of PLD's abilities are either bugged or serve no real purpose (both, really, in the case of Awareness, since TP moves don't crit). More still could stand to receive non-trivial adjustments.

To summarize, I am slightly amused that you find my thoughts to be copying WAR, when it seems the soul of the Paladin was ripped out and slapped on WAR by throwing raw mitigation at it by the barrel-full, and then enhancing everything else for good measure. If these Warrior adjustments move ahead with no response for Paladin, 2.1 may as well be labelled 1.3. Leaving Paladin untouched while going forward with those adjustments will just reverse the issue of tank superiority instead of actually addressing it.

Also, the tag for this thread is pretty disheartening.

Edit: The character limit is also incredibly frustrating.