Dear Healers that don't DPS in dungeons

[LiadansWhisper]

The only way to get comfortable is to push yourself. Nobody is magically able to DPS and heal at optimal efficiency; it takes practice. Once a healer is comfortable with the healing part of WHM/SCH, they should start mixing in DPS when healing is not needed at certain parts of the fight. Similarly, once I was comfortable with the easy skill rotation for DRG I moved to the more difficult but optimal one, because that simply makes me more valuable to the group.

Now if we are talking about someone who can't move to the next step of DPS'ing when healing is not needed because they are not yet comfortable doing just healing, then they should indeed stick to just healing. But we're no longer talking about the cream of the crop WHMs and SCHs in this case.

You get "comfortable" by running with a static group. Which most players don't end up doing until they hit 50.

[Freakiie]

You get "comfortable" by running with a static group. Which most players don't end up doing until they hit 50.

You do? That's weird, I DFed my entire DL and I sure as hell was "comfortable" with DPSing in WP. I didn't know mobs and bosses didn't follow a set pattern of attacks until after you form a static group, must've missed the memo on that.

[LiadansWhisper]

You do? That's weird, I DFed my entire DL and I sure as hell was "comfortable" with DPSing in WP. I didn't know mobs and bosses didn't follow a set pattern of attacks until after you form a static group, must've missed the memo on that.

Curious. Is this your first MMO as a healer or have you done this before? Did you have other classes to 50 before you leveled a healer class?

[Freakiie]

Curious. Is this your first MMO as a healer or have you done this before? Did you have other classes to 50 before you leveled a healer class?

While I do have my fair share of experience in MMOs which helps me pick up stuff faster than most people I really don't think it should take people more than a few runs to figure out WP/AK. Those dungeons are so horribly straightforward the only way not to pick up what to do is by paying more attention to your **** than FF. Especially in the DF where you generally aren't speedrunning there's simply a limit to how much damage your tank can receive, unless he makes sure to get hit by every AoE there is, so unless he's severly undergeared there's a massive amount of downtime as a healer.

I'm not expecting a firsttimer to go in there, stancedance around and nuke everything, but even as firsttimer you should realise that if you're standing around scratching your butt because your tank has near full HP that tossing out a few DoTs and perhaps a Stone II might just move things along even that little bit faster. Considering that even as Whm, where mana can be a problem, you already ran multiple instances with Shroud and even improved Shroud by that time you should start realising that, unless you're perma spamming Cure II/Medica (Admittedly some Whms do this *sigh*), mana really shouldn't be the issue it was in the early dungeons anymore.

Basically by the time you hit 50 and start running the dungeons everyone does over and over and you generally want to be done with as soon as possible you should have enough experience as a Healer (assuming it was your first class) that at least healing is already something you do automatic and it doesn't require all your attention just to keep a party alive through something like WP/AK. At that point there are two things you can do. Scratch your butt because there's no healing to be done or start looking for ways to help the party in other ways than healing, which with the tools we got so far leaves you with nothing but DDing. Now you can tell me that you don't like DDing, but last time I checked scratching your butt while staring at a bunch of HP bars that don't move in a dungeon you've already done far too often wasn't all that interesting either.

[LiadansWhisper]

While I do have my fair share of experience in MMOs which helps me pick up stuff faster than most people I really don't think it should take people more than a few runs to figure out WP/AK. Those dungeons are so horribly straightforward the only way not to pick up what to do is by paying more attention to your **** than FF. Especially in the DF where you generally aren't speedrunning there's simply a limit to how much damage your tank can receive, unless he makes sure to get hit by every AoE there is, so unless he's severly undergeared there's a massive amount of downtime as a healer.

I'm not expecting a firsttimer to go in there, stancedance around and nuke everything, but even as firsttimer you should realise that if you're standing around scratching your butt because your tank has near full HP that tossing out a few DoTs and perhaps a Stone II might just move things along even that little bit faster. Considering that even as Whm, where mana can be a problem, you already ran multiple instances with Shroud and even improved Shroud by that time you should start realising that, unless you're perma spamming Cure II/Medica (Admittedly some Whms do this *sigh*), mana really shouldn't be the issue it was in the early dungeons anymore.

Basically by the time you hit 50 and start running the dungeons everyone does over and over and you generally want to be done with as soon as possible you should have enough experience as a Healer (assuming it was your first class) that at least healing is already something you do automatic and it doesn't require all your attention just to keep a party alive through something like WP/AK. At that point there are two things you can do. Scratch your butt because there's no healing to be done or start looking for ways to help the party in other ways than healing, which with the tools we got so far leaves you with nothing but DDing. Now you can tell me that you don't like DDing, but last time I checked scratching your butt while staring at a bunch of HP bars that don't move in a dungeon you've already done far too often wasn't all that interesting either.

That's great.

I've encountered healers at 50 who don't know what Esuna does. I've encountered healers at 50 who don't know how to target switch at all (literally, they can only heal one person, and if you ask them to do more than that, they don't know what to do). Healers who think that any little bit of damage calls for Medica. Healers who don't know what their CDs do (despite the fact that the tooltips tell you what they do), who don't understand the purpose of Shroud of Saints, who don't know what stats they should be looking for, much less what each stat does. At 50.

I'll also remind you that if you're using the random Duty Finder to run AK or WP, every single run is going to be different. You'll have your clockwork runs where everyone knows what they're doing. Your runs where no one knows what they're doing. You'll run with the tanks in full Coil gear (assuming they even queue >.>), and then you'll run with the tanks who refuse to wear their AF gear because it's "ugly" and insist on using level 40 armor because it's "prettier." You're going to run into the DPS with broken gear who dies every other second from standing in things (that wouldn't one-shot him if his gear wasn't broken, but...). You'll get the people who know what an interrupt is, and those who do not. Those who can follow marked orders, and those who just DPS whatever the hell they feel like. Those who understand what CC is and how to use it, and those who just stand around with their thumbs up their butts while the tank is getting pounded into dust. The random Duty Finder is just that - random. And I hear enough bitching and moaning from other players every single day to know that it's incredibly hit or miss as to what kind of group you'll get.

And into this incredibly chaotic, confusing environment, you expect someone who has never played a healer before in any game, or for whom this may be their very first MMO, to just "get it" in one or two runs.

Okay. Sure.

And therefore, because you have not encountered any of these difficulties, and because "getting it" was easy for you, it should be easy for everyone.

Seriously, I would rather have a healer not DPS at all if they are unsure. I would rather have them do nothing but heal, if that is what they are comfortable with. Because I can live without the DPS - that's what DPS are there for. But I really, really, really need the healer to be healing when the shit hits the fan.

[Eclair_Xysha]

That's great.

I've encountered healers at 50 who don't know what Esuna does.

I just literally rofl'd... Thats soo bad.

Encountered a WHM that just keep going afk. Had to stop DPS just to spam heal the tank. I don't mind healing to help a little when I'm Deeps... but damn thats not what I DF'd for at that time. Icon is damn red. Not green.

We kept asking WHM to focus and we kept asking what she/he was doing to afk and she just completely ignored us. All she ever said was the following every time:
-OMG IM SO SORRY
-SH--T!!
-OOPS! SORRY!
-OMG DONT DIE!
-HEY WHERE ARE YOU GUYS?

Maybe a leecher? Not so sure....

[Ghishlain]

Snip

You act like every single DF you have been in has been absolutely horrible. If that's the case, I feel sorry for you because your luck in that regard is beyond horrendous then.

If the party as a whole is well over geared, that healer should learn to DPS and stance dance. It's a perfect time to learn because they have the laid back opportunities to get used to the nuances of such a role. If the party is on par or undergeared, then the healer should focus primarily on their heals as they will most likely be needed in these scenarios, though throwing out the odd Aero here or there without Cleric's Stance will most likely not cause a wipe of any capacity.

The mark of a good healer is their adaptability and situational awareness.

The only way to get to that point is to learn and understand ALL aspects of their toolkits and when an appropriate time to use them is. I don't expect a new player to the MMO scene in general to understand that on the onset, but it certainly is something they should be striving for to become a better player for their party / FC / LS. Some people are just inherently bad and nothing you will do can change that. That will happen. But for the vast majority of players, they will be willing to listen if you have constructive advice for them and will want to learn and grow to be come better for themselves and their allies.

[LiadansWhisper]

You act like every single DF you have been in has been absolutely horrible. If that's the case, I feel sorry for you because your luck in that regard is beyond horrendous then.

Nah, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that you can't just make a broad statement of one-size fits all. That's as silly as me saying that every DF group is terrible and has no idea what they're doing (which I didn't say, btw, I thought that was clear when I explaining the random nature of groups that you get). There has to be room for those players who a) aren't comfortable stepping out of their role and/or b) are getting truly horrible groups.

I'm an officer in a set of two Linkshells on my server designed to help players pug without having to queue randomly in the Duty Finder. The LS was started because of our bad experiences in the DF. But even with the LS, sometimes people aren't online, or so many are in dungeons that there aren't enough to make another group, or they're just busy, etc. So then the members might queue in the DF themselves, and, by god, the stories that they tell about their experiences. And this isn't just an occasional thing. This is a daily thing.

If the party as a whole is well over geared, that healer should learn to DPS and stance dance. It's a perfect time to learn because they have the laid back opportunities to get used to the nuances of such a role. If the party is on par or undergeared, then the healer should focus primarily on their heals as they will most likely be needed in these scenarios, though throwing out the odd Aero here or there without Cleric's Stance will most likely not cause a wipe of any capacity.

Tossing out dots isn't going to cause a wipe, no, unless your tank is at like, 20% health (in which case you'd have to ask "so...why did you do that again?"). But that's besides the point. My point is that your playstyle, and my playstyle, isn't going to work for every player. I'd rather players learn to heal, then slowly experiment with DPS as they get comfortable. At their own pace. Not trying to please nameless, faceless forum people who "know better" without ever having run with the groups that healer runs with.

The only way to get to that point is to learn and understand ALL aspects of their toolkits and when an appropriate time to use them is. I don't expect a new player to the MMO scene in general to understand that on the onset, but it certainly is something they should be striving for to become a better player for their party / FC / LS. Some people are just inherently bad and nothing you will do can change that. That will happen. But for the vast majority of players, they will be willing to listen if you have constructive advice for them and will want to learn and grow to be come better for themselves and their allies.

I understand where you're coming from, but I still maintain that the advice given by many on this forum is anything but constructive. Telling healers that they should be DPSing, regardless of their skill level, experience, or comfort, isn't constructive. Giving them ideas on when it's safe to DPS if they choose to do so? Constructive. Providing them with macros to help them safely swap in and out of cleric stance? Constructive. Telling someone who just isn't comfortable with DPSing that they should DPS in a random Duty Finder group? Really not constructive.

[Ralemont]

You get "comfortable" by running with a static group. Which most players don't end up doing until they hit 50.

I did the opposite. I got comfortable by running with DF groups so that I got used to healing in non-ideal situations, which made the ideal situations just that much easier.