Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

[Ayvar]

Probably wrong thread to ask (though I'll admit it's lovely), but is anyone else having issues with Leg Sweep's stun not seeming to exist? Does anyone know what triggers it?

Leg Sweep is notoriously unreliable. From my experience whether or not the stun will apply depends entirely on when you use it during your usual ability spam. If you use an ability whose animation is easily canceled then Leg Sweep should be fine, however other abilities do not interrupt as easily and this seems to balls up whether the stun is applied or not. It doesn't matter if you get the stun off while the spell is still casting, it still won't apply (you'll even see the little "+Stun" thing in the scrolling combat text).

It's pretty annoying.

[Mantrus]

Have you guys been noticing that sometimes Power Surge doesn't apply to Jump or maybe that Jump's damage doesn't get used at all? I'm not 100% sure on this, but here's what I've gathered. Usually off-GCD actions can only be used after the damage from a GCD action is applied, but some actions can have the off-GCD used early before the damage of the GCD action even appears; Disembowel and Chaos Thrust seem to be the usual offenders. But it seems that if you use a jump during this time, sometimes the damage won't apply or the GCD action damage will be applied super late and after the off-GCD, which is bad with Disembowel in particular where you want Disembowel first to amplify your jump damage. Has anyone else seen these things happening?

[Ayvar]

Have you guys been noticing that sometimes Power Surge doesn't apply to Jump or maybe that Jump's damage doesn't get used at all? I'm not 100% sure on this, but here's what I've gathered. Usually off-GCD actions can only be used after the damage from a GCD action is applied, but some actions can have the off-GCD used early before the damage of the GCD action even appears; Disembowel and Chaos Thrust seem to be the usual offenders. But it seems that if you use a jump during this time, sometimes the damage won't apply or the GCD action damage will be applied super late and after the off-GCD, which is bad with Disembowel in particular where you want Disembowel first to amplify your jump damage. Has anyone else seen these things happening?

Any off-GCD ability can be overwritten by a main ability if you are switching between them too quickly (server lag tends to worsen this problem too). This causes all sorts of problems such as Invigorate not proving 500TP, Life Surge not applying the crit, etc. In your case Power Surge gets used but isn't applied, or Jump goes on cooldown but is never actually used.

This can happen with any class as well, not just Dragoons. Just be careful when you're using oGCD abilities and don't hit your next main ability until the oGCD has successfully applied.

[Bossmoney]

Have you guys been noticing that sometimes Power Surge doesn't apply to Jump or maybe that Jump's damage doesn't get used at all?

Yeah, noticed it happened a couple times. I usually time my first jump after Chaos Thrust (using a Power Surge either before or after Disembowel) and 95% of the time, it goes off fine without a hitch and uses my Power Surge. But every once in a while, it's almost like I'm clipping the animation of Chaos Thrust and jumping sooner than normal. And in my mind, at first I was like, "Yeah! Shorter animations!" but then I noticed most times that happened, my Power Surge would still remain on the bar after the Jump. I'd guess it's some weird animation mechanic thing or server side lag/latency.

[Ayvar]

Due to all the AE talk over the last couple pages I've added an AE section to the end of the guide so people have some numbers for comparing RoT and DS. It's all pretty intuitive stuff, but I figured people might want the fully worked values.

[HoolieWho]

Due to all the AE talk over the last couple pages I've added an AE section to the end of the guide so people have some numbers for comparing RoT and DS. It's all pretty intuitive stuff, but I figured people might want the fully worked values.

I didn't look over your AoE section in detail, but I have a couple of comments.

1. DoomSpike (DS) is our highest Potency Per Second (PPS) GCD skill or combo starting at just TWO targets. It destroys our TP but helps our DPS in multi-target situations to the extent the TP cost is affordable.

2. Ring of Thorns (RoT) out of combo is more PPS than HT-RoT when there are FOUR or more targets. So it's not strictly correct to say that RoT is useless outside of combo, just TP costly and probably not competitive with other options.

3. Buffs. With Single Target (ST) damage, when exactly you apply buffs like Blood for Blood (B4B) and Internal Release (IR) is not very important. With multiple targets comes the possibility to spam AoE abilities (namely Doomspike) in your buff window. This makes Doomspike (or even RoT out of combo) spam attractive compared to HT-RoT because of the potency you can pack into your buff window.

Good to see an AoE section added to the OPs. I've begun looking into what my AoE options are with the rise of dungeon speed runs and Turn 4 on the horizon for me so I'm glad to see the recent discussion addressing this topic. So far it's opened my eyes to the power of Doomspike.

[EasymodeX]

If a DRG is bursting with BFB + IR, and using HT-ROT + DS + DFD, there's virtually 100% chance you'll pull threat against something (or multiple somethings) in an AOE situation, even against BLMs (who need to catch up by their ... 3rd Flare or so). Then again, that's why DRGs have Bloodbath and Keen Parry.

Only problem is it's not sustainable over a long duration by any stretch.

[Ayvar]

I didn't look over your AoE section in detail, but I have a couple of comments.

1. DoomSpike (DS) is our highest Potency Per Second (PPS) GCD skill or combo starting at just TWO targets. It destroys our TP but helps our DPS in multi-target situations to the extent the TP cost is affordable.

If something isn't worth doing, such as Doomspiking two targets, there's no way I'm going to suggest anyone actually does it. Single target damage is quite good vs. two target packs, and there is no situation currently in the game where you need to AE two mobs.

2. Ring of Thorns (RoT) out of combo is more PPS than HT-RoT when there are FOUR or more targets. So it's not strictly correct to say that RoT is useless outside of combo, just TP costly and probably not competitive with other options.

That is indeed a fair point. Though as you say, when considered in terms of TP cost for damage you'd be better Doomspiking than using unbuffed RoTs, so it does render them pretty useless. An argument I could see for unbuffed RoTs would be if you could fit more mobs in with a circle AE and you don't care about TP conservation, so that I'll probably add in later.

Thanks for the comments though, I'll be editing that section over the next couple days as I evaluate what is missing.

EDIT: I've added the unbuffed RoT numbers. I don't feel it should ever be used over Doomspike or HT-RoT when all is equal, but it is definitely much better if there is a difference in the number of mobs you can hit with a circle vs. line AE

[EasymodeX]

Based on a brief discussion on reddit, I evaluated one variant of the simpler rotations and it's pretty good and consistent/reliable:

HP IDC TTT / HP IDF TTT

So basically a stupid-simple repeat cycle replacing Chaos Thrust with Fracture every other cycle. No compensation required for DOT clipping unless you have abnormal levels of skill speed.

The only possible downsides are: (a) it uses Impulse Drive more often than many other rotations, requiring more "back time", and (b) it uses slightly more TP than a rotation with 0 Fracture. The fact that it only uses FR once every other cycle mitigates that a bit.

[Apaulcalypse]

How important is mercy stroke? I do some research and people say it's worthless others say your gimping yourself by not having it.