Battle Reform Blueprint

[Feldt]

the questions were in fact very very dumb half the time
but alot of the answers were good at least(even if some people wanted more detail, they at least gave us the outlines of stuff)

Well I'm not blaming the answer cuss that was good piece of work but ugh... Seriously i need to repent now *headwalls a thousand times*

[Rentahamster]

Well I'm not blaming the answer cuss that was good piece of work but ugh... Seriously i need to repent now *headwalls a thousand times*

Would you mind elaborating on the what is so dumb about the questions, specifically. Just humor me.

[TheVedis]

Would you mind elaborating on the what is so dumb about the questions, specifically. Just humor me.

1 question asking why you have to stop in order to attack or cast a spell
they wanna be able to run while launching spells at the monster apperently, cuz you know, you shouldnt ever have to stop
they dont like that "brief pause" it takes to finish an ability

[Physic]

1 question asking why you have to stop in order to attack or cast a spell
they wanna be able to run while launching spells at the monster apperently, cuz you know, you shouldnt ever have to stop
they dont like that "brief pause" it takes to finish an ability

uhhh lots of people want them to make it so you have no stopping when you attack or cast a spell, while casting i think is a necessaary cost, with auto attack they will have to change attacking pauses, because you no longer will be making a choice when you attack, you will have to attack all the time. In our current system that would root you. I prefer attacking when i want to and getting the slight increase to risk, but thats impossible with auto attack.

Sooo they wanted to let people know that auto attack wouldnt root you, and spell casting is meant to root you slightly.

[TheVedis]

uhhh lots of people want them to make it so you have no stopping when you attack or cast a spell, while casting i think is a necessaary cost, with auto attack they will have to change attacking pauses, because you no longer will be making a choice when you attack, you will have to attack all the time. In our current system that would root you. I prefer attacking when i want to and getting the slight increase to risk, but thats impossible with auto attack.

Sooo they wanted to let people know that auto attack wouldnt root you, and spell casting is meant to root you slightly.

well with attacking, i understand "special attacls" rooting you also
and casting

but im assuming the question was aimed at not stopping at all, which in itself is asking too much and in fact a pretty dumb question

[Rentahamster]

1 question asking why you have to stop in order to attack or cast a spell
they wanna be able to run while launching spells at the monster apperently, cuz you know, you shouldnt ever have to stop
they dont like that "brief pause" it takes to finish an ability

This is an issue that many players find annoying.

The animation lock that players experience does a lot to inhibit smooth and dynamic gameplay. It hurts the design objectives of making active positioning an important part of battle.

Having your player get stuck in place does nothing to positively promote the areas of strategy, adaptive positioning, and fluidity.

[Physic]

This is an issue that many players find annoying.

The animation lock that players experience does a lot to inhibit smooth and dynamic gameplay. It hurts the design objectives of making active positioning an important part of battle.

Having your player get stuck in place does nothing to positively promote the areas of strategy, adaptive positioning, and fluidity.

it did help strategy, and adaptive positioning,

strategy is about ascessing the cost and benefit of actions, and coming up with a plan that will make the best use of them,

youre supposed to decide when you cast a spell, i get X damage or effect, but i have to position myself so that i wont get hit for X seconds.

With attacks, you are commiting to the attack, and losing some of your manueverability. Its the same thing in real life, the strength of attacks is coming mostly from momentum from your body, it is difficult to get a powerful attack while you are retreating. you also are more likely to take heavy damage while in the middle of an attack, because it leaves you open. It was an interesting mechanic, somewhat muddled by the ability to cue skills, (which most people did by accident) and slow server response times.

But in an auto attack world it would go from strategic choices to just you will be rooted, which is a bad idea. I wonder if Weaponskills will root you, probably only auto attack will be completely free, similar to ffxi. Casting i think people want too much, many games root you completely for casting, this one only stops you on initial cast, and on execution, without having to use any skills, i think that a big step up.

[Rentahamster]

it did help strategy, and adaptive positioning,

strategy is about ascessing the cost and benefit of actions, and coming up with a plan that will make the best use of them,

youre supposed to decide when you cast a spell, i get X damage or effect, but i have to position myself so that i wont get hit for X seconds.

With attacks, you are commiting to the attack, and losing some of your manueverability. Its the same thing in real life, the strength of attacks is coming mostly from momentum from your body, it is difficult to get a powerful attack while you are retreating. you also are more likely to take heavy damage while in the middle of an attack, because it leaves you open. It was an interesting mechanic, somewhat muddled by the ability to cue skills, (which most people did by accident) and slow server response times.

That might be nice in real life, but this is a video game. Even in the context of a video game, it might sound good on paper, but think about it - has this actually contributed to better gameplay? I can only think of negative examples.

Example:

I'm tanking Dodore. One of the strategies to tank Dodore is to run away whenever he powers up to do "Tail Whip" so that I don't get all my skills disabled.

If I am unlucky enough to do a skill at the exact same time Dodore decides to use Tail Whip, I'm stuck in place and can't move to avoid it. Don't tell me, "don't spam". I'm not.
It's all up to luck. If I'm unlucky enough that I activate a skill at the same time as Dodore uses Tail Whip, I can't do anything about it to save myself.


Do you have any examples of where being stuck in place due to skill animation contributed positively to battle strategy?


(by the way, I'm only talking about skills, not spells. I think that spells should have to be cast in a stationary position, given that mages are not supposed to be an "in your face" class")

[TheVedis]

That might be nice in real life, but this is a video game. Even in the context of a video game, it might sound good on paper, but think about it - has this actually contributed to better gameplay? I can only think of negative examples.

Example:

I'm tanking Dodore. One of the strategies to tank Dodore is to run away whenever he powers up to do "Tail Whip" so that I don't get all my skills disabled.

If I am unlucky enough to do a skill at the exact same time Dodore decides to use Tail Whip, I'm stuck in place and can't move to avoid it. Don't tell me, "don't spam". I'm not.
It's all up to luck. If I'm unlucky enough that I activate a skill at the same time as Dodore uses Tail Whip, I can't do anything about it to save myself.


Do you have any examples of where being stuck in place due to skill animation contributed positively to battle strategy?


(by the way, I'm only talking about skills, not spells. I think that spells should have to be cast in a stationary position, given that mages are not supposed to be an "in your face" class")

skills, yes, i can understand pausing to use them
the animations themselves show you "powering them up" which indicates you should stop for a moment to do them

your basic attack would be the only thing i think you shouldnt have to stop for(unless your an archer)

[Physic]

That might be nice in real life, but this is a video game. Even in the context of a video game, it might sound good on paper, but think about it - has this actually contributed to better gameplay? I can only think of negative examples.

Example:

I'm tanking Dodore. One of the strategies to tank Dodore is to run away whenever he powers up to do "Tail Whip" so that I don't get all my skills disabled.

If I am unlucky enough to do a skill at the exact same time Dodore decides to use Tail Whip, I'm stuck in place and can't move to avoid it. Don't tell me, "don't spam". I'm not.
It's all up to luck. If I'm unlucky enough that I activate a skill at the same time as Dodore uses Tail Whip, I can't do anything about it to save myself.


Do you have any examples of where being stuck in place due to skill animation contributed positively to battle strategy?


(by the way, I'm only talking about skills, not spells. I think that spells should have to be cast in a stationary position, given that mages are not supposed to be an "in your face" class")

basically that was part of the skill of choosing what you were doing, one of the prices that glad pays is the fact that since they have so many skills they have to maintain, they were more likely to be unable to move when it matters, pug on the other hand does not need to guard, so they can run more. Its the difference in advantage between reactive play, and having really good rotations, being reactive allows you to actually react. choosing a strong tank style of play forces you to be slow, like a tank.

For example, with puglist, when im tanking i basically use light strike, and pummel for tp/keeping defense up, i only strike when i think its safe, which is usually right after an attack, if you only commit to one action peridocially you are less likely to be stuck in an animation when somethig bad happens, since the game is was stamina based, you were losing nothing for choosing not to attack when you thought it was risky.

Glad is a tank, they get more defense but pay for it in stamina, and being more rooted by actions. They are constantly spamming skills because that is thier play style, they are trading movement and adaptability for an over all superior defense.
Pug is about movement, they can wait and react to the monster, most of thier defense comes from innate skills like high evasion and a really high parry, they have a relatively quick attack that gives them a buff, and quick debuffs that debilitate accuracy.

Basically its not unlucky, you chose every attack in the old system, you chose when to do something, unless your class needed to constantly use skills as soon as they came up, which means they designed the class to have less choice in movement. Thats the price you pay for using guard and spamming skills as a playstyle, its a tradeoff, tradeoffs are what strategic descions are based off of.