FFXIV has lost it's magic

[Tahldon]

FFXI was a piece of art, this game has no creativity and nothing to do. It is a poor copy-cat. I wish it wasn't, but it is what it is.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this statement.

I feel like nostalgia drives this sentiment, mostly.

This game already tried to be different in 1.0, but a lot of people rushed to the exit on that as well, so the team changed things, but now the game is a copy-cat.

I suppose what "confuzzles" me is that if this game borrowed all of the great elements from other games that people are suggesting with FFXI and the like... wouldn't it still be a copy-cat?

But if it tries to be "innovative" will people rush to leave again? I mean, I'm totally down with crafting arrows again, so that Bards run out in the middle of Turn 4, cause, that'd be interesting to deal with I suppose. Something else for people to yell at each other about, maybe. But interesting nonetheless.

I think there's confusion on what people are expecting this game to be.

[Lord_Zlatan]

The WoW model works? Really? look at the mmo market currently.


Why has every single WoW clone failed hardcore or been forced to go f2p?

Why is this forums complaints mirroring all those games who went f2p currently?

Name 1 mmo that has not last more then 70% of subs in the first 2yrs in p2p since people adapted the WoW. (for this game to match XI it can only lose ~5% of its subs from its peak a year)

The WoW model has been proven to be a failure in the market. WoW is the only one out of about 20-30 mmos that have made it work. Think of all the BIG AAA mmos that have crashed and burned. Even now WoW is starting to bleed absurd amounts of subs. The more casual that game gets the more people it loses.

Copying WoW only works for a quick buck... the entire model is not sustainable. MMO MUST HAVE LONGEVITY. Casual content is by design short lived.

If people do not have enough time... those people need to expect to get left behind. THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. Ultra casuals and casuals need to stop wanting handouts, it is ruining/has ruined the genre for the rest of us.

I somewhat agree here.
As someone that has been through every type of gaming stye (Played FFXI and LOTRO hardcore; played Diablo/playing PoE casual, and playing FFXIV in-between the 2 styles) I feel like there needs to be a reward for everyone. Not a reward that everyone can obtain, but rather scaled rewards that certain types of people can obtain. In FFXI, even though i played hardcore, there was certain things that I could not and would not ever obtain simply because I was not dedicated enough to get it. That is OK with me. I had reasonable expectations. I joined the game late, and never expected to get a Burtgang or Excalibur.

In LOTRO, the game was much more accessible to the casual player (less than FFXIV) but there were still things i knew I wouldn't get simply because of level of dedication.

FFXIV doesn't have that. That is what I think is missing from the game to be honest. Everything is streamlined and optimized for everyone to have a legitimate chance at obtaining what they want. I know for sure that I can get everything I want to get in this game without exception. Why? because it is all streamlined... want full allagan? sure it will take you a while, but you can get it NP by just getting drops. Want all your mythic, relic +1? just takes time... not real dedication to hunting, epic long quests, etc etc.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE THIS GAME. I love it because I am someone that can't be the hardcore MMOer that I once was but I can still achieve all the content in the game for the most part. But at the same time, there are things missing (in terms of incentive) for the hardcore community, things that will truly distinguish members of the community from one another.

Not to go off on a serious tangent, but a great way to implement this would be to re-introduce Notorious Monsters (not fate based) that are force pops with rare drops. Another would be specific challenges that Hardcore players can do Solo... SOMETHING different from the FATE/DUNGEON/RAID scene that other games seam to implement. FFXIV needs some more diversity for the hardcore and casual, but still allow members of the community to distinguish themselves.

[Doo]

I
I suppose what "confuzzles" me is that if this game borrowed all of the great elements from other games that people are suggesting with FFXI and the like... wouldn't it still be a copy-cat?

You can't call it a copy cat since it's the same company. FF games are not copy cats of each other just because they have same elements.
"Oh FF6 has CID, Oh man FF12 has CID TOO! COPY CATS!!" Doesn't work that way.


oh and ff7 is mostly nostalgia, ffxi was real =/

[Taemek]

One of the great things about old MMOS like EQ and XI was that when you went into a zone, it felt like an adventure. There was danger around every corner. You could die. Further, many zones felt like they were a wild rarely-traversed place. When you were trying to run through Yuhtunga/Yhotar jungle, it felt like the middle of nowhere. Getting to Xarcabard felt like a journey. The non-instanced dungeons made the game feel huge and like a massive world.

XIV on the other hand has some sort of "camp" and "crystal" about a 2-4 minute run from every point in the game. There aren't really any areas that are just a wide open expanse without civilization. And there is essentially 0 open world difficulty.

You never get that feeling of running through a deadly temple and sneaking past things to stay alive. Or being chased across the zone by something that can actually kill you. Instead, wearing minimal gear, I can run into almost any group of mobs and kill them all without any real worry.

MMOs used to be great because they created emotion, tension and anxiety, in a good way. You were in a dangerous world, and you had to survive. There were things to explore, hidden coffers and nms to find, isolated places to level or farm, etc.

Now the open world (probably the best part of XIV) is more like an interactive instance selection menu. The real game is in a few instances (which have gotten really boring).

Put another way, I had more difficulty and died more often in the lvl 1-10 zones in ffxi, than I have in the highest level most "difficult" areas in XIV.

I realize that modern day gaming is just a series of repetitive instances for e-peen status. But that's not a real game. That's a trick to keep people paying.

XIV has one of the most beautiful open worlds of any game i have ever played. And after you get level 50 on a job, it all goes to waste.

Sad thing is, while there is still people who want to pay for this garbage, there will always be a market for it.

Don't get me wrong, I miss the golden age of MMORPG gaming, people who have started MMORPG in the last 8 - 10 years simply do not understand what they missed out on. Even though there were frustrating times, there was more great times then there were bad that's for sure.

[Tahldon]

You can't call it a copy cat since it's the same company. FF games are not copy cats of each other just because they have same elements.
"Oh FF6 has CID, Oh man FF12 has CID TOO! COPY CATS!!" Doesn't work that way.

Then, I would suppose that this is where that "FFXI-2" term that has been thrown around many a time comes into play... Right? "More of the same, but with more... 'other stuff' with it"?

Sad thing is, while there is still people who want to pay for this garbage, there will always be a market for it.

Don't get me wrong, I miss the golden age of MMORPG gaming, people who have started MMORPG in the last 8 - 10 years simply do not understand what they missed out on. Even though there were frustrating times, there was more great times then there were bad that's for sure.

This is kind of the feeling I get from a lot of people. There are a lot of old school, "been there, done that" MMO players playing the game at the moment that harbor a tiny bit of animosity (or something) towards modern MMOs that aren't the way the ones in the past used to be. In the face of that, I don't think any MMO will stand a chance. Is it wrong of me to say that nostalgia heavily influences these types of feelings?

I've always associated old school MMOs with "time sink", in FFXI alone, it took a long time to get some things done. So when people seem to want things "the way it's always been", that's what I think that people are asking for, time sinks. Granted, I may be wrong, but that seems to be what comes to mind the most when people are discussing wildly varying mechanics and what-have-you.

Eh, I don't know. I feel like there's a lot of people expecting a lot of things but innately wanting what they're accustomed to playing way back when because that's what they experienced and felt was great. This game is in a rock and a hard place between all of the expectations of MMOs past while trying to be something new this day and age.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Sad thing is, while there is still people who want to pay for this garbage, there will always be a market for it.

Don't get me wrong, I miss the golden age of MMORPG gaming, people who have started MMORPG in the last 8 - 10 years simply do not understand what they missed out on. Even though there were frustrating times, there was more great times then there were bad that's for sure.

I agree. But I also think that part of the problem is that games aren't only easier (they are but it is compounded by this next point) they have become very, very streamlined. There is no outside the box... you can't even get a group together and have and experiment. Everyone just shoots for the tried and true methods which are sadly all that is being presented in todays MMOs.

[Ispen]

Sad thing is, while there is still people who want to pay for this garbage, there will always be a market for it.

Don't get me wrong, I miss the golden age of MMORPG gaming, people who have started MMORPG in the last 8 - 10 years simply do not understand what they missed out on. Even though there were frustrating times, there was more great times then there were bad that's for sure.

They didn't miss out on much.

[EmeraldSerenade]

I've been saying this since release. There's just nothing challenging to do in the open world. Such a waste.

[Lord_Zlatan]

I've been saying this since release. There's just nothing challenging to do in the open world. Such a waste.

In my opinion, that is the biggest problem with the game.

If they are going to make FATES prime EXP please at least make them difficult. You shouldn't be able to solo the Big NMs in Outer La Noscea for example. You should go into Coerthas/Mor Dhona and get destroyed. It doesn't need to be difficult everywhere and in all situations. But SOME fear/consequence for getting to brazen.

[Sayura_]

Sad thing is, while there is still people who want to pay for this garbage, there will always be a market for it.

Don't get me wrong, I miss the golden age of MMORPG gaming, people who have started MMORPG in the last 8 - 10 years simply do not understand what they missed out on. Even though there were frustrating times, there was more great times then there were bad that's for sure.

They missed out on SWG - everything you could possibly want.