Battle Reform Blueprint

[kukurumei]

the skills were balanced, you just didnt like thier balance, regardless it is going away. All im saying taking out stamina alone is a MAJOR change to the battle system, its not like making battle faster, it is a fundamental change in strategies, tactics and execution in battle.

How in the seven seas were/are they balanced? One look at our battling tactics and skills shows how unbalance they are.

And not liking the balance? Is that even possible when the /quit rate is so high and the /rage rate is so severe it practically screams disfunction?

Before going into like/hate, let's just get it straight. Nothing works from the ground up, that's the reasons we're hacking and slashing the current system.

[Physic]

How in the seven seas were/are they balanced? One look at our battling tactics and skills shows how unbalance they are.

And not liking the balance? Is that even possible when the /quit rate is so high and the /rage rate is so severe it practically screams disfunction?

Before going into like/hate, let's just get it straight. Nothing works from the ground up, that's the reasons we're hacking and slashing the current system.

what skills were unbalanced, not liking a skill doesnt mean its unbalanced, and fixing balance wouldnt be destroying the system. They are hacking and slashing because it makes sense marketing wise, most of the people i know who quit, quit when they changed SP and made fighting well unrewarding, and showed no new content after 3 months, and still a heck of a lot of bugs. They needed tweaks, fixes and a *** more actual content. I guarantee if this game had dungeons, bosses, more story, more exciting battle animations, more ways to level and basic bug fixes and lag corrections, it would be doing a lot better. Changing battle is just changing battle, people will adapt and learn whatever system if you have the proper rewards, heck i played ffxi for years inspite of a boring battle system because the other rewards were in place. I tell you right now, to me, and to many others, the battle system was and is better than FFXI system.
What is it about ffxi battle system that is actually good?

[Mug]

when they changed SP and made fighting well unrewarding

Using your weakest attack over and over until you had max SP per mob you got rewarded for "fighting well"? o.O

[Physic]

Using your weakest attack over and over until you had max SP per mob you got rewarded for "fighting well"? o.O

once again, this was the fail way of getting sp in the old system. doing more damage = greater SP, debuffing the mob = greater sp, the stronger the mob = greater sp.

If you were using a weak weapon to proc 50 sp say 3 times in one minute you would havebetter off using a good weapon to proc 100 for those same 3 times. Kill the monster and move on to the next one, you get no bonus points for hitting the exp cap.

if it takes you 2 minutes of battle to hit 500 exp, and it takes me 50 seconds to hit 360 who is going to get more exp?
kill the mob and move on, stop trying to juice each mob for 500 exp when you could kill 3 mobs for 400 in the same time frame.

[Mug]

Well if each hit gave you SP, that would have worked.

Back then, I'd sometimes end up with 15 SP after killing a mob if I went all out. Using weaker attacks would give me less SP per hit, but it also gave me more chances to actually get SP.

[Malakhim]

Man I miss the old SP gaining system... Seriously, once they changed it to static, that really hurt. I went from feeling rewarded to having all my gear at top, contributing to the party effort, and doing the most possible damage to bland combat.

This of course just being the way I feel about it.

[Rentahamster]

when they changed SP and made fighting well unrewarding

"fighting well"?

Haha

You mean, the old SP system that rewarded you for fighting like an idiot on purpose.

(e.g. not using buffs on purpose, wearing crappy unrepaired armor on purpose, not using your best WS on purpose, willingly getting blasted by AOE on purpose even if you're an archer, etc etc.

[SuzakuCMX]

Man I miss the old SP gaining system... Seriously, once they changed it to static, that really hurt. I went from feeling rewarded to having all my gear at top, contributing to the party effort, and doing the most possible damage to bland combat.

This of course just being the way I feel about it.

I wasn't here for the old SP system Can you explain it to me somebody?

[Physic]

Well if each hit gave you SP, that would have worked.

Back then, I'd sometimes end up with 15 SP after killing a mob if I went all out. Using weaker attacks would give me less SP per hit, but it also gave me more chances to actually get SP.

this was the short term situation, first of all if one proc would only give you 15, you were probably fighting something too weak, also over time youd notice you get more sp even if you got 0 on one mob going all out. we tested this measuring sp gained per hour, the number was surprisingly consistent, non stop murdering was noticably more. fighting tougher mobs was noticeably more.
I think it needed tweaks, in that there should have been a minimum base sp per kill, and they should have had a mode for shared SP. But that is the past, they could work with this system, but thier current poor sp rate per mob species (some mobs are harder or easier to kill, sp gained should refelect this) and 10 level cap, totally ruins any form of strategic combat/rewarding/skillfull combat because with 4-8 people something 10 levels higher than you is almost always a complete joke, and requires only token effort.
the SP reward system is the reason why people think battle sucks, they play pressing 1 1 1 1 1because its good enough, they think that cure on sub is overpowered because although a con might heal for twice as much with the same spell, no one needed twice as much cured.

They have people who are level 49 doing behests, who dont even know to attack the red monsters, to attack the active monsters before the passive, and not to do aoe WS when they are surrounded, and it makes virtually no difference because the monsters are too weak to pose any threat to 8 people of that level no matter what happens.

the battle system isnt going to solve anything without major changes to the SP system, unless the major change to the battle system is to make everyone about 50% weaker. which may in fact be the plan.

[Physic]

"fighting well"?

Haha

You mean, the old SP system that rewarded you for fighting like an idiot on purpose.

(e.g. not using buffs on purpose, wearing crappy unrepaired armor on purpose, not using your best WS on purpose, willingly getting blasted by AOE on purpose even if you're an archer, etc etc.

the only major flaw was mages trying to pimp melee for damage. but we basically ignored them and told them to try to get debuffs and damage based sp gains. I had one friend who refused to eat aoe on lancer, when they could use thier longer distance to avoid damage.
far as using crappy armor, truth is if you were fighting the things that would give the best sp, you would probably die unless you had like 3 mages spam curing you. Fighting things 15-20 levels higher than you, you couldnt afford to take too much damage, dying basically meant you were going to lose exp from trying to run back to where ever the party was fighting, and having to stay out of aoe range, when one hit would kill you, and even if that wasnt enough the slow stamina basically insures no matter what you can at best get half the SP