The Solo disease?

[Preypacer]

I must've missed where the OP demanded change to the game and was whining about it not being solo friendly. Whatever, I do both and really enjoy solo over a zerg-fest sometimes. Gotta admit though, spending any significant amount of time on this or other FFXIV forums does build a better case for soloing. = D

Actually, the OP does make an argument for MMOs being 100% soloable in a previous post of theirs where they ask why *shouldn't* all content be soloable. They asked this in response to someone who suggested that while there will be solo-friendly content, there will also be group-only content.

The OP, apparently, isn't satisfied with that answer either and, yes, is coming across as a bit entitled and wanting everything "their way". I mean, even the title they chose for the thread screams "melodrama!".

To answer the question about why can't all content scale.. Because as has been mentioned before, the moment you put in content that - even if it's intended for group play - can be soloed, the chance of it being soloed increases. You start seeing the remarks in global "you can solo that. You don't need a group". And if someone presses the issue and still wants a party, they tend to open themselves to ridicule. The remarks like "lrn2ply kthxbye" and other assorted stupidity starts scrolling up. And where does that ridicule tend to come from, at least in my experience? The dedicated soloers who "never want to group for anything" and apparently believe no one else should want to either.

So, out of frustration and fed up with being chided for wanting to group up - for a group-recommended encounter - folks will give up on trying to find a group, suck it up and go solo it. So much for group-centric encounters.

I saw this play out and have experienced it myself several times in Aion, in WoW, in FFXI, in Lineage 2, in LoTRO... and in myriad other MMOs.

It's not enough for some players to prefer soloing... they have to boast about it, like it's some kind of badge of honor. Or, they look down on anyone who prefers grouping as being a "lesser player". I have a real-life friend who is like that. He pretty much believes anyone - who isn't him - is a moron who can't possibly play as well as he does, and is only going to slow him down, so he remains solo for everything. The only person he ever groups with is his wife when they're playing the same MMOs.

People talk about not liking groups because of the idiots you can run into. The most arrogant, obnoxious and self-absorbed players I've ever met have been almost entirely soloers who thought their crap didn't stink because they "could solo everything" while others "needed help".

I don't agree that "MMORPGs = you must enjoy grouping". However, just like people who prefer group-centric content have to accept that some content simply won't be geared for a party... Those who prefer soloing need to learn to accept that some content simply won't be geared for solo play. Tit for tat. Groupers have the option of soloing. Soloers have the option of grouping. Neither side deserves "special consideration" over the other.

Logistically speaking, the reason why MMO devs can't - or at least don't - simply scale all content up or down is because of the dynamics involved. A fight that is intended for a group of, say, 18 people is very likely going to require the individual actions and skills - and communication - of every single person in that group to pull it off successfully. The skill comes in the form of coordination and cohesiveness as a group - not only "what role are you playing in the game".

For that reason, I disagree with the OP when they say that it "takes more skill to solo it" because encounters scaled to a solo encounter - by necessity - have to do away with most all the aspects that would require a group. In other words, the encounter has to be manageable by a single player and further, by a single player regardless of what job/class they're playing. It goes from being a case of "appealing to a group of coordinating players, filling specific roles", to being one of reducing it to the lowest common denominator so that an individual of any class can succeed at it.

I would argue it takes more skill as a group because the chances of failure are multiplied by every person participating. If a key person dies, it's on others in the group to be on their toes, for someone to take on the fallen player's role, for someone to manage CC if needed, for the healer(s) to be quick on raising the fallen player(s) while keeping an eye on other players' health. In a group encounter, everyone needs to know their roles well enough to adjust their tactics on the fly and pull through the situation, avoiding a wipe. If one or two people aren't on the ball, control of the fight could be lost and it could quickly turn into a domino effect, with players dropping one after another.

For those reasons, I would argue group encounters are far more demanding, far more dynamic and, subsequently, far more interesting than a solo encounter can ever be, just by virtue of how they're designed.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

If someone can quote this tell TDJ that elder scrolls oblivion those buggy, as similar stuff. You do see npc do other stuff. I actually for the first time in YEARS of owning this game say the countess of layewin with her personal escort march on horseback going to chorrol. That is the work of the radient AI. And I also found a guy who was assassinated, and a mob of npc killing each other because of a thf. These things do not always happen or are seen by the players. And no elder scrolls game has a finite amount of mobs. Just npc.... :P as I soon found out when I killed everyone in morrowwind. XD doomed that file like no tommarrow. Anyway..... Tell him I agree about the guild wars thing. I played it and imo wasn't an mmorpg. Well maybe the fact it is free after buying has something to do with it... XD

[Leeloo]

Actually, the OP does make an argument for MMOs being 100% soloable in a previous post of theirs where they ask why *shouldn't* all content be soloable. They asked this in response to someone who suggested that while there will be solo-friendly content, there will also be group-only content.

The OP, apparently, isn't satisfied with that answer either and, yes, is coming across as a bit entitled and wanting everything "their way".

To answer the question about why can't all content scale.. Because as has been mentioned before, the moment you put in content that - even if it's intended for group play - can be soloed, the chance of it being soloed increases. You start seeing the remarks in global "you can solo that. You don't need a group". And if someone presses the issue and still wants a party, they tend to open themselves to ridicule. And where does that ridicule tend to come from, at least in my experience? The dedicated soloers who "never want to have to group for anything" and apparently believe no one else should want to either.

So, out of frustration and fed up with being chided for wanting to group up, folks will give up on trying to find a group, suck it up and go solo it. So much for group-centric encounters.

I saw this play out in Aion, in WoW, in FFXI, in Lineage 2, in LoTRO... and in myriad other MMOs.

It's not enough for some players to prefer soloing... they have to boast about it, like it's some kind of badge of honor. I have a real-life friend who is like that. He pretty much believes anyone - who isn't him - is a moron who can't possibly play as well as he does, and is only going to slow him down, so he remains solo for everything. The only person he ever groups with is his wife when they're playing the same MMOs.

People talk about not liking groups because of the idiots you can run into. The most arrogant, obnoxious and self-absorbed players I've ever met have been almost entirely soloers who thought their crap didn't stink because they "could solo everything" while others "needed help".

I don't agree that "MMORPGs = you must enjoy grouping". However, just like people who prefer group-centric content have to accept that some content simply won't be geared for a party... Those who prefer soloing need to learn to accept that some content simply won't be geared for solo play. Tit for tat. Groupers have the option of soloing. Soloers have the option of grouping. Neither side deserves "special consideration" over the other.

The reason why they can't simply scale all content up or down is because of the dynamics involved. A fight that is intended for a group of, say, 18 people is very likely going to require the individual actions and skills - and communication - of every single person in that group to pull it off successfully.

I disagree with the OP when they say that it "takes more skill to solo it" because encounters scaled to a solo encounter - by necessity - have to do away with most all the aspects that would require a group. In other words, the encounter has to be manageable by a single player and further, by a single player regardless of what job/class they're playing.

I would argue it takes more skill as a group because the chances of failure are multiplied by every person participating. If a key person dies, it's on others in the group to be on their toes, for someone to take on their role, for the healer to be quick on the raise, for everyone to know their roles well enough to adjust their tactics on the fly and pull through the situation, avoiding a wipe. Group encounters are far more demanding and far more dynamic than a solo encounter can ever be, just by virtue of how they're designed.

So, making an encounter scale smoothly from group, or even large group, down to solo is not some trivial task.

But OP never said anything about wanting to make FFXIV more soloable, because it already is. In fact, they mentioned that this game was too easy. Yes there were back n forth discussions about how content could or should be done, but that particular response of mine was directed specifically at the people who were posting as if the OP was complaining about XIV being too hard and wanting it easier for soloers. Which was just totally wrong. Felt like clarifying that since ya quoted my post. A mini-argument within the bigger discussion = D

[Kilta_Firelotus]

But OP never said anything about wanting to make FFXIV more soloable.

Actually, yes he did several times. He asked for content to be scale-able much like levequests. So there is a solo side and a group side. And it was also stated many times that the issue with this, is if something can be solo, it will infact be solo'ed. People will take the "faster" way ofer the "fun" way. Any day. AkA they will solo more the group. And with those who want to group no matter will get mocked for "taking the easy way"

[thedevilsjester]

Actually, the OP does make an argument for MMOs being 100% soloable in a previous post of theirs where they ask why *shouldn't* all content be soloable.

I never say such a thing and in fact I make it a point to say numerous times that there is plenty of content that I do not think should be soloable.

What I do say (and I assume is the phrase that continues to be misinterpreted) is simply that many people can only see one extreme or another. Its either a group game with solo content, or a solo game with group content. And I pose the question asking why it has to be one or the other. This is a general observation and isn't targeted at any game in particular, just at the frame of mind that some people tend to have that it has to be either one or the other. You can quite easily have a game that is not group or solo centric (a nice hybrid), yet provides good content for both play styles. It is my humble opinion that FFXIV falls nicely into this category and doesnt need to be changed at all.

To sum it up, since I seem to have to every few posts: I do not think that everything should be soloable, nor do I think that FFXIV should change one bit to cater more to soloers.

[Bled]

I never say such a thing and in fact I make it a point to say numerous times that there is plenty of content that I do not think should be soloable.

What I do say (and I assume is the phrase that continues to be misinterpreted) is simply that many people can only see one extreme or another. Its either a group game with solo content, or a solo game with group content. And I pose the question asking why it has to be one or the other. This is a general observation and isn't targeted at any game in particular, just at the frame of mind that some people tend to have that it has to be either one or the other. You can quite easily have a game that is not group or solo centric (a nice hybrid), yet provides good content for both play styles. It is my humble opinion that FFXIV falls nicely into this category and doesnt need to be changed at all.

To sum it up, since I seem to have to every few posts: I do not think that everything should be soloable, nor do I think that FFXIV should change one bit to cater more to soloers.

Just make the bolded section your sig lol

[Kilta_Firelotus]

lol.... ya ima quote tdj AGAIN. gimi a sec and i'll edit this post.

[options]

Hello, first time poster, long time lurker. Bout time i got off my lazy butt and started contributing to the community.

Soloing has always been around. In the early days of mmo's (UO, everquest, DAoC), farming and Xping has been the primary purpose of soloing. In fact FFxi was the first mmo i had ever come across that was a group only game.

I solo for the above reasons, i have to be in a frame of mind these days to grind like that and unless you are a good friend in need of help, then no amount of requesting is going to pull me away from it. Its a frame of mind but like all my various different frames of mind (there are many), I am completely focused on it and would rather not be pulled away from it.

You might say that i can come back to it later, but in all my experience playing mmos, there is no later. you, one person is asking, you might say, but as you also say, we are playing an mmo with thousands of people, all of them wanting to make those same requests.

I farm by myself. I am unlucky with numbers (which is why i do not gamble) and always lose in gambling. i could have 50/50 odds and still lose. When i kill something solo, its loot is mine. When i kill something in a group i have to split it.

I remember my last few days of FFxi with my 32 whm still wearing lvl 12 gear as the only income i seemed to get was just enough to buy the neccessary spells to play my character decently. i was always broke and could just keep up with spells. I wished I could set up a LFG flag and run off to farm while i waited. Instead i had to wait, wait, wait. etc. get in a group and lose all the rolls on the loot.

People solo, i solo for various reasons. We all play diferrently. Guess what, we are all individuals and play games differently. Try being tolerent of different peoples playstyles, worry about yourself and not what someone else is doing.

Now before you rip me a new one. Let me add, that although i do farm by myself i enjoy group play content as well. I enjoy to group with friends but i detest being forced to group with strangers as i have had bad experiences with bad grps. FFxi brings back memories of bad grps. And even WoW.

I would like to group with friends and guildies/LS members. I don't want constant random stranger requests for groups just for the sake of grouping. i would never get anything done like that. And Yes, there are ways to make new friends by ignoring or turning down random requests. I want quality of friends, not quantity.

Its not being rude, its being focused on the task at hand.

[Elexia]

Kilta, quit being so emotional.

Damn her for being a human being!

[Kilta_Firelotus]

ok just gonna re post :P since ppl already posted under mine
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Solo-disease post 17
the quote:

Why should MMO's be group focused?

I talk mostly of scalable content that can work perfectly for either side. Why would a company choose to make content for one or the other, when they can make it for both?

And when people were since saying he can solo all he wants just at some point expect to group. He attacked people using
"what makes groups so special" Further impiling he doesn't like groups or possible those who group.
And as for the reply is ffxi is a group mmo, based on a group based rpg. It comes with the final fantasy territory that the story is not about a singular hero but a group of them.
Dungeon and dragons was one of the leader rpg that paved the way of making the the rpg video game. Do you play the game solo? Or do you and a group of people play? (if not the first the most popular one)