Market Wards, enough is enough

[Rentahamster]

even amazon.com doesnt instantly give you the items you purchase

...err, that's because Amazon.com is real life.

[SuzakuCMX]

I kinda wanna play amazon.com the game >_>

[Wolfie]

*Examples backed by assumptions

Markets and Retainers
Q. Today's maintenance introduced several changes to the Markets. Are there further changes planned?
A. The Markets have been a hot topic since the game's release, and today's maintenance was the first step in making this feature better suited to the needs of the players. With that step we saw the introduction of a one-click targeting system, making it easier to access a retainer's list of wares. We also saw a renaming of the wards combined with a reduced-tax system aimed to promote a more organized distribution of goods, therefore making it easier for players to find the items they seek.

For our next step, we plan on introducing additional features to make navigating the Markets even easier. These include the implementation of a search feature that will not only help players locate items in a Market district, but then display an icon next to the retainers who have those items, reducing the hassle of having to look through the inventories of retainers who may not have what a player seeks.

Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...e6fc02b03b1184

and a lot of people dont want to play amazon.com the game, but even amazon.com doesnt instantly give you the items you purchase

Way to completely miss the point of my post. I wasn't asking to turn this game into amazon.com the game, I was using amazon.com (and Neopets and Dragonica, since I noticed you had nothing to say against those. You know, since they're actual MMOs, with a working, GOOD shop/bazaar system) as examples of bazaar/shop systems that WORK WELL.

Amazon doesn't instantly give you the purchase because it's the real world, and items need to be delivered. But if you want me to paint you an example of Real Life Market Wards compared to Real Life Amazon.com, Amazon.com delivers your item to you in 2-10 days. Real Life Market Ward forces you to go pick up your item from a distribution center several miles away, but for some strange reason, your item will not be available for pickup for at least a month after purchase.

Again, you completely missed my point when I used amazon.com as an example.

the equivalent of why you like AH applied to the rest of the game would turn it into go to an npc counter, select your enemy from a list of all available enemies, choose level, and click to kill it. Its fast, its effecient, its also a pretty empty system. The reason you prefer it is because you dont like those aspects of gameplay and want to diminish it. This is fine, but some people actually like merchanting/selling etc, many people want to see it grow even more, with shop customization, bigger more complex wards, player owned shops, advertising, etc. The perfect AH that you want kills any possibility of this stuff mattering.

So its really just your opinion, on which type of game you would prefer to see created, and the level of immersion you want for that aspect of the game, maybe people share your opinion, maybe they dont.

Strawman, much? I'm dissecting NPC based Market Wards because it's an actual inconvenience to game play; it's riddled with shortcomings and unnecessary overhead for the simple task it's trying to accomplish. A shop/bazaar system that doesn't require rendering NPCs will work pretty much the same way, except without the excessive zoning, crashing, and limitations. Do you even bother to read what I write, or do you just start assuming things and coming up with strawmen the moment I say MW's current implementation is bad?

[Physic]

Markets and Retainers
Q. Today's maintenance introduced several changes to the Markets. Are there further changes planned?
A. The Markets have been a hot topic since the game's release, and today's maintenance was the first step in making this feature better suited to the needs of the players. With that step we saw the introduction of a one-click targeting system, making it easier to access a retainer's list of wares. We also saw a renaming of the wards combined with a reduced-tax system aimed to promote a more organized distribution of goods, therefore making it easier for players to find the items they seek.

For our next step, we plan on introducing additional features to make navigating the Markets even easier. These include the implementation of a search feature that will not only help players locate items in a Market district, but then display an icon next to the retainers who have those items, reducing the hassle of having to look through the inventories of retainers who may not have what a player seeks.

Source: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...e6fc02b03b1184



Way to completely miss the point of my post. I wasn't asking to turn this game into amazon.com the game, I was using amazon.com (and Neopets and Dragonica, since I noticed you had nothing to say against those. You know, since they're actual MMOs, with a working, GOOD shop/bazaar system) as examples of bazaar/shop systems that WORK WELL.

Amazon doesn't instantly give you the purchase because it's the real world, and items need to be delivered. But if you want me to paint you an example of Real Life Market Wards compared to Real Life Amazon.com, Amazon.com delivers your item to you in 2-10 days. Real Life Market Ward forces you to go pick up your item from a distribution center several miles away, but for some strange reason, your item will not be available for pickup for at least a month after purchase.

Again, you completely missed my point when I used amazon.com as an example.



Strawman, much? I'm dissecting NPC based Market Wards because it's an actual inconvenience to game play; it's riddled with shortcomings and unnecessary overhead for the simple task it's trying to accomplish. A shop/bazaar system that doesn't require rendering NPCs will work pretty much the same way, except without the excessive zoning, crashing, and limitations. Do you even bother to read what I write, or do you just start assuming things and coming up with strawmen the moment I say MW's current implementation is bad?

im just telling you straight up why so many people disagree with you, apparently you dont want to listen. Im not saying your wrong for wanting to turn buying and selling into an instant text based game, im just telling you why a bunch of people might not want an instant text based game.

There is also the exploitation issues that occur with instant trading, much like when the stock market had etrading, but those could probably be at least somewhat controled via heavy oversight and planning. The real issue is, what type of merchant game do you want to play, you prefer amazon, some people prefer the mall.

and yeah its more MW is probably closer to buying things in a mall, and amazon is buying things online, but in the amazon case, the main downside is it isnt instant, in your case, you want to make amazon have instant, faster than going to the mall implications. I didnt mention your other examples cause i dont play those games.

npc bazaar system, could be ok, but for me i always find rpgs more immesive and entertaining where you actually had towns, and shops, rather than the ones where you only had a back drop, then clicked shop and a portrait and items appeared, this is a matter opinion, not law.

[Wolfie]

im just telling you straight up why so many people disagree with you, apparently you dont want to listen. Im not saying your wrong for wanting to turn buying and selling into an instant text based game, im just telling you why a bunch of people might not want an instant text based game.

There is also the exploitation issues that occur with instant trading, much like when the stock market had etrading, but those could probably be at least somewhat controled via heavy oversight and planning. The real issue is, what type of merchant game do you want to play, you prefer amazon, some people prefer the mall.

and yeah its more MW is probably closer to buying things in a mall, and amazon is buying things online, but in the amazon case, the main downside is it isnt instant, in your case, you want to make amazon have instant, faster than going to the mall implications. I didnt mention your other examples cause i dont play those games.

npc bazaar system, could be ok, but for me i always find rpgs more immesive and entertaining where you actually had towns, and shops, rather than the ones where you only had a back drop, then clicked shop and a portrait and items appeared, this is a matter opinion, not law.

Rendering NPC shops doesn't prevent any kind of exploitation, though. That's all how the trading system is set up, which is independent of what's causing issues with MW.

But if people insist on having shopping malls, then SE should add the amazon.com for the rest of us that don't like malls and we'll have our two separate systems. =D

[Sorel]

When you need to buy 8 different items for 1 recipe, how long does it take you?

Because it'd take me at least 15 minutes or so. Which is ridiculous.

Really?? 15 minutes?? Ridiculous?? When people were saying "it takes an hour to do XYZ", I could agree that it was a reason for complaint. 15 minutes?? Not so much.

[Physic]

Rendering NPC shops doesn't prevent any kind of exploitation, though. That's all how the trading system is set up, which is independent of what's causing issues with MW.

But if people insist on having shopping malls, then SE should add the amazon.com for the rest of us that don't like malls and we'll have our two separate systems. =D

they could do this, as long as they had some downside to the amazon versus the mall. Like, the delivery taking longer. or heavy taxes. But in all honesty, i think right now they just want to have something that functions while they fix bigger things. i dont see MW or AH getting any major revisions anytime soon. They may focus on stability, or adding inventory or easy things, but thats about it for awhile Id say.

[Rentahamster]

they could do this, as long as they had some downside to the amazon versus the mall.

The fact that you have to artificially introduce "downsides" to the amazon method just proves its superiority.

[Physic]

The fact that you have to artificially introduce "downsides" to the amazon method just proves its superiority.

its not superior, in real life it takes time. It also is set up by a private entity that had to build and maintain all those connections, not by the government (which in game life is SE) People also have to list their products on amazon, ship them to their buyers themselves.

A game creates rules and models actual situations to be interesting, What you can create in an imaginary world that is most effecient is not usually fun for all.
IE in any imaginary system i can just create things instantly, in a game that is entertaining you have to balance this with real rules that enhance the game in certain respects. For example, in FXIII you could access a shop from any save menu and instantly buy and sell, this was extremely effecient, it was also completely implausible, and non immersive.

amazon with instant transmission of items is implausible. Nothing can compete with omniscience + instant transmission. Essentially you just want a text based selling system, thats fine, but dont say its a superior game mechanic, it is closer to an absence of game mechanic.

[indira]

lol even if you had a AH it can still crash and its happen before in other games or it didnt work or it ran slow as hell. used to happen in ffxi. the market wards are 90% a AH dont see why people still post about it. a AH will most likely will have a history which shows you who bought the last 10 of that item and it will make RMT really powerful like they are in every game, they just sell a item to themselfs for 50 billion then the price stays high. the wards when no one is selling you dont know how much it was selling for so you can set your price easier.