Market Wards, enough is enough

[Kailea_Nagisa]

MW is barely-functional garbage. What's your point?

market wards are different, that is all, people need to get over this BS they seem to have, they wanted different, they got different, now they want is back the way it was..... sorry but you dont get both.

Market Wards (I will say it again.... ) will work, but they just need some more refinement, a lot of the whiners on this forum seem to want everything now now now, well to bad, things take time, coding and debugging take time......

[Wolfie]

market wards are different, that is all, people need to get over this BS they seem to have, they wanted different, they got different, now they want is back the way it was..... sorry but you dont get both.

Market Wards (I will say it again.... ) will work, but they just need some more refinement, a lot of the whiners on this forum seem to want everything now now now, well to bad, things take time, coding and debugging take time......

Barely-functional is indeed different from good. But no amount of refinement will make them good, because (for the millionth-and-one time) the design is fundamentally flawed. You can't fix that.

[Wynn]

Barely-functional is indeed different from good. But no amount of refinement will make them good, because (for the millionth-and-one time) the design is fundamentally flawed. You can't fix that.

I wish one of you would enlighten the rest of us with this fundamental flaw you are mentioning. A person not liking to zone to pick up their junk is not a fundamental flaw, it is a preference.

[Wolfie]

I wish one of you would enlighten the rest of us with this fundamental flaw you are mentioning. A person not liking to zone to pick up their junk is not a fundamental flaw, it is a preference.

Forced excessive zoning, penalties for selling multiple types of items, and hardware limitations and crashes are not features or preferences or whatever you want to call it. They're LIMITATIONS, because having to render every shop as an NPC is taxing on server and client hardware, and it's a bad design in terms of usability, organization, and intuitiveness.

[Wynn]

Forced excessive zoning, penalties for selling multiple types of items, and hardware limitations and crashes are not features or preferences or whatever you want to call it. They're LIMITATIONS, because having to render every shop as an NPC is taxing on server and client hardware, and it's a bad design in terms of usability, organization, and intuitiveness.

Besides the crashing, you are talking about preference, in this case yours. Preference does not a flaw make.

As far as the crashing go, servers crash. They need to fix how much the wards crash. However, that is hardly an argument to scrap it. The game servers crash too. I don't see anyone arguing to scrap the game because of it.

[Wolfie]

Besides the crashing, you are talking about preference, in this case yours. Preference does not a flaw make.

As far as the crashing go, servers crash. They need to fix how much the wards crash. However, that is hardly an argument to scrap it. The game servers crash too. I don't see anyone arguing to scrap the game because of it.

No, sorry, you've been duped into thinking that these limitations are features of this system, and that they're optional or desirable.

Penalties for selling in the wrong ward were instated in order to coerce people to place their retainers in the right ward for organization purposes. if the shops didn't have to be rendered, there would be no need to organize them by ward, and there would be no need to penalize for selling in the wrong ward. Excessive zoning is another limitation, because servers and clients cannot handle so many NPCs and PCs in such a small area. Ward limits on the amount of retainers were created because of this.

There is no feasible solution for market wards. If server populations ever fill out to FFXI levels (4000 players), you can expect at least 8000 retainers. The amount of server infrastructure to handle that kind of load is ridiculous. If the server populations fill out even more, to levels of popular MMOs like WOW or Aion or RIFT, where you have 10000+ players per server, it's going to be a nightmare to work with market wards.

[Wynn]

No, sorry, you've been duped into thinking that these limitations are features of this system, and that they're optional or desirable.

Penalties for selling in the wrong ward were instated in order to coerce people to place their retainers in the right ward for organization purposes. if the shops didn't have to be rendered, there would be no need to organize them by ward, and there would be no need to penalize for selling in the wrong ward. Excessive zoning is another limitation, because servers and clients cannot handle so many NPCs and PCs in such a small area. Ward limits on the amount of retainers were created because of this.

There is no feasible solution for market wards. If server populations ever fill out to FFXI levels (4000 players), you can expect at least 8000 retainers. The amount of server infrastructure to handle that kind of load is ridiculous. If the server populations fill out even more, to levels of popular MMOs like WOW or Aion or RIFT, where you have 10000+ players per server, it's going to be a nightmare to work with market wards.

Just because I have a different opinion than you, doesn't mean I've been duped. It just means I disagree with you.

[Rentahamster]

I wish one of you would enlighten the rest of us with this fundamental flaw you are mentioning. A person not liking to zone to pick up their junk is not a fundamental flaw, it is a preference.

They've been stated many many times already.

One of the biggest ones being that the servers and whatever process is running them can't handle all the NPCs in one area, despite the fact that hardly anyone plays this game. How are they supposed to remedy this when they release the PS3 version and expect the population to grow again?

Another flaw is just the fact that the NPC-based system doesn't grant any significant benefits over a purely menu-based system. It's just slower and prone to bugs due to server issues and game engine issues.

The fact that server congestion and game engine problems are even negatively contributing at all to the issue of economic transactions is a huge red flag. In what sane universe does our economic activity and marketplace get all screwed up because graphically, the game can't render enough NPCs at once?

The main engine of economic activity (market wards) is intimately tied to a whole host of other problems (graphics insufficiency, server congestion, server memory, NPC rendering, etc) that it shouldn't even be associated with in the first place. It needlessly relies on those systems to stay alive, and when any one of those things destabilizes, the whole thing comes crashing down.

[Wynn]

They've been stated many many times already.

One of the biggest ones being that the servers and whatever process is running them can't handle all the NPCs in one area, despite the fact that hardly anyone plays this game. How are they supposed to remedy this when they release the PS3 version and expect the population to grow again?

Another flaw is just the fact that the NPC-based system doesn't grant any significant benefits over a purely menu-based system. It's just slower and prone to bugs due to server issues and game engine issues.

The fact that server congestion and game engine problems are even negatively contributing at all to the issue of economic transactions is a huge red flag. In what sane universe does our economic activity and marketplace get all screwed up because graphically, the game can't render enough NPCs at once?

The main engine of economic activity (market wards) is intimately tied to a whole host of other problems (graphics insufficiency, server congestion, server memory, NPC rendering, etc) that it shouldn't even be associated with in the first place. It needlessly relies on those systems to stay alive, and when any one of those things destabilizes, the whole thing comes crashing down.

How do we know what is crashing the wards? How do we know it is the NPCs? Did SE tell us this? All I see in this thread is a lot of assumption and a lot of people yelling about what they want. This thread does not deliver on facts.

[Rentahamster]

How do we know what is crashing the wards? How do we know it is the NPCs?

What else could it be? The only difference between the wards and everywhere else is that it contains a huge population of NPCs that contain their own database of inventory, geographic location variables, and are subject to interaction, functions, and calls- stuff that normal NPCs are not burdened with.

We've already seen the problems that the game engine has rendering player characters and NPCs. We experience the popup all the time.

Do you really believe that a purely menu-based, text-based market interface system that performs the exact same functions as the current market wars system would crash just as often?