Red Ring of Death!

[EvokerKeii]

Demon Wall's repel is a great example here. I'm tanking and when he uses repel my whole group goes back. Me, the tank, I don't get the knockback affect. I'm standing in the middle like everyone else was. This whole time I'm taking damage using my abilities(hitting and going on CD) I see everyone moving back up. Well I move to the left to avoid the purple gook. But once I move to avoid the stuff.. BAM! I get knocked back off the side of the bridge and not at a slight angle but at practically a 90 degree angle.

I had happen to me once during wall the second repel go off, not getting knocked back, beating the boss, then getting knocked back after the boss died and I went to collect loot.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

I live pretty much in the freaking antartida.
My usual ping in most games is 160~190ms (that`s what any USA resident would call lag). And i can play properly most games with northamerican servers, damn, i can even play some koreans hosted open betas and i dont have troubles of conectivity.

But when it comes down to FFXIV... Suddendly all the telegraphs in the world are just not acurate enough. And is not something of "lag". But "delay". The way the servers themselves check your current position is what is causing all these troubles for most of the people which does not have a perfect broadband.

Everyone will still have lag, but things like being out of the telegraph and still be hitted after more than one second later by the attack, those things have to go.

[Tiggy]

Most people, a majority of people, aren't going to have that. They'd end up having to pay for a VPN (which a lot of people have resorted to doing).

And why do you suppose that works huh? It works because it cuts out bad routing between you and the server. The fact this works for SO many people is proof that some of this problem is NOT with the client. Yes, the game may be too finely tuned for split second decision making in order to dodge effectively, but that is a game balance debate. Not a technical one.

@Whilke. Yes, you need to be clear before it starts fading. Once it begins to fade it has already decided if it will hit or not. As for Video 4 this type of thing happens in tons of games and is hardly unique to ARR. This particular instance does not support your argument. If anything it detracts from it since it is clearly packetloss which happens in all games. Just because your client experienced packet loss doesn't mean all clients did. So yes. In this situation you will definitely get hit in the face.

[Sixmp]

Guys the point here isn't so much as who to blame but how to fix it.
Some people will have the problem that only SE can fix but how many people are there with just normal problems that they and only they can fix for themselves?

Some people here a just suggesting that before you jump into the "can only be fixed by SE" box make sure it isn't a problem that cannot be fixed at your own end.
This isn't about blame, it is about getting as many people playing as well as they can.

Personally i think some people in this thread are so hell bent on proving SE is to blame that they are actually blinded to any other cause.

People shout lag, lag is caused by many things. The DELAY that is built into the game is not lag. Much of the confusion is caused by using the wrong description for the games inbuilt delay.
If you are having problems why not try to fix it yourself? Wouldn't it be good if you could? I mean that horrible problem gone? Leaving you only to cope with the inbuilt delay.

EDIT: Missed a word

[Tiggy]

Guys the point here isn't so much as who to blame but how to fix it.
Some people will have the problem that only SE can fix but how many people are there with just normal problems that they and they can fix for themselves?

The voice of reason speaks!

[Sunarie]

And why do you suppose that works huh? It works because it cuts out bad routing between you and the server. The fact this works for SO many people is proof that some of this problem is NOT with the client. Yes, the game may be too finely tuned for split second decision making in order to dodge effectively, but that is a game balance debate. Not a technical one.

Siiigghh. Missing the point entirely and only picking parts of my post. Lag does not cause the issue. Is the issue aggravated by lag? Yes, absolutely. It is not, however, the cause. You are telling a majority of the playerbase (based on the current strat for Titan being to pre-move it would be safe to say a majority of people experience the issue) to buy an extra service to bandage one symptom of an issue that every other MMO in the past decade has been able to deal with successfully. Yet somehow that isn't SE's fault?

[Tiggy]

Siiigghh. Missing the point entirely...

You are missing this point entirely. If that extra service fixes the problem for many people then it is clearly the ISP or the backbones fault. Yet people like you still blame SE. SE does not own the entire internet and can not be held liable because of a backbone providing crap service. SE can definitely attempt to rectify the situation with the ISP/backbone, but they can not do any more than we personally can. Make a few phone calls and hope they fix it.

If you are attempting to suggest the problem is that the game isn't giving enough time to dodge that's different. They admittedly tuned the game to require you to make split second decisions or you get hit in the face. However, that is a game balance complaint and not a lag or even a .3 second delay debate. People in this thread are not separating those two distinct things, and are instead blurring them together.

[Klutz64]

I don't know where the latency problem is coming from.

But I do wonder how many people saying "Work with your ISP" have tried working with a commercial ISP to solve a routing problem for a single program.

[RikiaReborn]

I am a player who plays from Europe (Spain with 10mb adsl not the best) playing on Atomos server (JP server). My ping to the server is a aconstant 320-340 with some hiccups that can go up to 440, 500 to be the worst. I use Battleping to normalise the lag a little and it does help a bit. However this is specifically on AoEs. Should I have lag, I should have input lag as well as casting delays on pretty much every occasion. Which surprisingly doesn't happen. When I am crafting, my hotbars are responsive with or without Battleping. My spell fires when the cast is finished and pretty much displays damage when the effect lands. Visual lag is minimal at the least. My very first game breaking encounter was surprisingly as many stated Titan, but on Story mode. I simply could not dodge the landslide no matter how far I went out of the aoe zone. I had to memorise it after 5 wipes on when the ability is comming after what ability and yes constantly moving like a bard (me being the healer).

I started using battleping and on most cases, with the knowledge of Mob's Ability rotation in mind able to dodge. I have beaten Titan HM 3 times out of 5 attempts. (no I was alive till the end with 4-5 wipes but got it in the end) Last attempt was today which for some reason, I was not so successfull on dodging plumes. Got hit more than I wanted. (although most of them were because I started moving too slow on the wrong direction) I had a funny landslide hit which was directed to the east... and got hit and got bumped to the west. (didn't fall though) This one was clearly out of the aoe range as in several videos posted and similar to the one that got hit and got thrown down. It could be since its tuesday and many people are running to cap their weekly Myth. Later today I ran 2 IDs and did not have any issue on dodging aoes Including the first boss in WP. But this is due to the fact that I am prepared to move. Any time the boss catches me casting, I will get hit. This is 95% accurate.

I do see however input lag while mining or harvesting. Sometimes it takes half a second to respond to the click. In the end instead of reacting to the game mechanics you are memorising their patterns and moving before or just when the aoe marker appears on the ground. Frustrating? Yes it is. It shouldn't be this way. I have experienced lag during prime EU times back in Classic WoW which had to do with my ISP and Telia's Datacenter hopping to wrong places causing lag. However its nothing like the aoe dodge lag, and that was plain and simple everything was lagging. Spellcasting, moving, mobs jumping around from place to place, the usual packet loss lags in its finest. I have been since the launch of SWTOR with their riddiculous input lag which also happened in prime times. This however like Sunarie's own post is a different beast. At least from my point of view. I haven't seen anything like this in all MMORPGs that I have played. Be it Action based like Tera, Old games like EQ1/FFXI, Popular game like WoW, and F2P games like Neverwinter and many others. When I lag in these games, I just see the mob firing the aoe, then getting hit without me moving it cause it happened before I could move due to lag. Just like FPS games, where you get killed before you even know what the hell happened. Here you do see the area that affects the AOE, you see the cast bar. In your screen it shows at least that you are out, and the outcome varies depending on what you were doing. I would imagine it could be a mixture of Lag + something else. But definately not lag alone. (Yes I tried lowering the setting, but the results were pretty much the same)

P.S. If anyone questioning why I am on JP server, well back in Beta 4 my planned server were full. I had to create in the JP server in Atomos. Fortunately I had some FF11 friends playing in that server, and decided to stay.

[whilke]

You are missing this point entirely. If that extra service fixes the problem for many people then it is clearly the ISP or the backbones fault. Yet people like you still blame SE. SE does not own the entire internet and can not be held liable because of a backbone providing crap service. SE can definitely attempt to rectify the situation with the ISP/backbone, but they can not do any more than we personally can. Make a few phone calls and hope they fix it.

SE is to blame here. The internet is not perfect, and most people will not have perfect connections. The fact is SE's network protocol and architecture for FFXIV is poor at handling degraded network connections, unlike most other AAA MMOs on the market.

Other games have implemented their systems properly to be able to deal with these less then perfect connections, and at least give the client the illusion of a lagless experience. Almost every AAA MMO on the market will work just fine with 500ms ping times, even ones that make you avoid AOEs. FFXIV does not work under those same conditions.

That *extra* VPN service fixes the problem because of how VPN tunnels route packets from point to point. The data is getting optimized, possible over UDP, from your computer to the VPN server. If it's just a few hops to the SE data center, then you only have to worry about those hops for normal internet traffic.

This has nothing to do with ISPs or backbones, they continue to work the same as they've always done, of which other games work just fine over.